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Old 10th February 2013, 06:31 PM
Dan A Dan A is offline
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Question The Holy Spirit

Ron,

A while back you mentioned (if I understood you correctly) that the Holy Spirit did not result from the perfect love the Father has for the Son and that the Son has for the Father. That got my attention since some of the religious Ed books I used while teaching CCD, said exactly that. It is something that I went through in detail during class so I am concerned if I was teaching incorrectly.

Do you have more on this or can you point me in the right direction?
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Old 10th February 2013, 07:36 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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I've written about the Trinity and procession extensively in this booklet:
http://www.amazon.com/God-One-Divine...dp/B008CR4SNI/

The claim that the Holy Spirit is the Love between the Father and the Son is not correct. The attribute of Love belongs fully to each of the Three Persons. The claim that the Son is the Knowledge of the Father is not correct. The attribute of knowledge belongs to each of the Three Persons.

Every attribute of the Divine Nature (existence, will, knowledge, love, mercy, justice, power, etc.) is fully possessed by each of the Three Persons. That is the meaning of the term consubstantial -- i.e. that each has the same substance (or nature).

There is a certain analogy that is used to describe the relation between the three persons, in which the Father is analogous to will, the Son to knowledge, and the Spirit to love. And that is a good analogy, but it is only an analogy.

Saint Thomas says:

"the Father and the Son love each other not by the Holy Ghost, but by their essence. Hence Augustine says (De Trin. xv, 7): 'Who dares to say that the Father loves neither Himself, nor the Son, nor the Holy Ghost, except by the Holy Ghost?' "

If we say that the Spirit is the love between the Father and the Son, then the love of the Father and the love of the Son would be only in the Spirit, not in the Father or the Son. This claim denies the dogma that all Three Persons are consubstantial. It is an heretical claim (and one of the more grievous errors taught by Michael Voris).
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Old 10th February 2013, 07:40 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan A View Post
A while back you mentioned (if I understood you correctly) that the Holy Spirit did not result from the perfect love the Father has for the Son and that the Son has for the Father.

The Son proceeds eternally from the Father. The Spirit proceeds eternally from the Father and the Son (as from one principle, not two). The Son is not produced as a result of the Father's knowledge of himself. Nor is the Spirit produced as a result of the love of the Father for the Son, and the Son for the Father.

Such a claim takes an analogy, and treats it as if it were literal.

The Spirit cannot literally be the love between the Father and the Son, for then the love of God would be only in the Spirit, and the other attributes of God would not be in the Spirit.

The three Persons are each consubstantial; each shares fully in the one Divine Nature.
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Old 10th February 2013, 10:57 PM
Dan A Dan A is offline
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Thank you for your explanation. I try to make sure what I teach is correct and I find it troubling that I was given a book that was not.

Your explanation makes more sense and encourages me to continue to question and test what I think I know.

Now the real challenge begins. This is what I have taught my sons and so I now need to work on correcting what I thought was right.
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Old 23rd November 2017, 03:15 PM
sammy sammy is offline
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Default the holy spirit

sharing with you a thought received during prayer. The warning might be like a moment of the "transfiguration" of the Holy Spirit not unlike the moment of the Transfiguration of our Lord Jesus. It is the time the Holy Spirit is transfigured so to speak. sammy.
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Old 24th November 2017, 03:34 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Yes, I agree. I wrote something similar in my book

From my book, The Warning, Consolation, and Miracle:

"The Church will suddenly become holier, and will continue to increase in holiness. The transfiguration of Christ was a foreshadowing of this event, whereby the Church will be transfigured. But the transfiguration of the Church only begins with the Warning."

"For the Warning will result in a certain type of transfiguration of the Church.

[Mark]
{9:1} And after six days, Jesus took with him Peter, and James, and John; and he led them separately to a lofty mountain alone; and he was transfigured before them.
{9:2} And his vestments became radiant and exceedingly white like snow, with such a brilliance as no fuller on earth is able to achieve.
{9:3} And there appeared to them Elijah with Moses; and they were speaking with Jesus.
{9:4} And in response, Peter said to Jesus: "Master, it is good for us to be here. And so let us make three tabernacles, one for you, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah."
{9:5} For he did not know what he was saying. For they were overwhelmed by fear.
{9:6} And there was a cloud overshadowing them. And a voice came from the cloud, saying: "This is my most beloved Son. Listen to him."

The Pope who reigns at the time of the Warning is mentioned in Sacred Scripture in a hidden way. The transfiguration of Christ was a foreshadowing of the Warning. Peter said to Jesus, after His transfiguration: "Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you are willing, let us make three tabernacles here, one for you, one for Moses, and one for Elijah." (Mt 17:4). In this way, Peter foreshadowed this future Pope, who will respond to the Warning by suggesting that three places of worship (tabernacles) be established in Jerusalem: one for Christianity, one for Judaism, and one for Islam, that is, a Church, a Temple, and a Mosque. He will suggest that all three religions worship God together in peace, with the city of Jerusalem as an example in the sight of the whole world, an example of peace between religions."
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