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  #21  
Old 7th June 2011, 01:26 PM
feyfifer feyfifer is offline
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She is rather quaint isnt she?..Palin I mean?
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  #22  
Old 7th June 2011, 03:36 PM
TheGiftOfLife
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Conte View Post
Voting for a person is not intrinsically evil. So the morality of the vote depends on intention and circumstances. Concerning abortion, whether the President is pro-abortion or pro-life, the reasonably anticipated consequences include that it is unlikely the abortion laws will change much. This lessens the moral weight of this issue in the voting decision. If there were a candidate who, the voter judged, would likely increase or decrease abortion substantially, then the issue would have greater moral weight

One could argue that......
since the abortion laws can only change with the Supreme Court, and since the only person to appoint a Supreme Court judge is the president, and since anyone of the 9 justices can resign or die at any moment. It is paramount that we keep the best choice for president to appoint a justice that would change the abortion laws. This is the only "likely" way to change the abortion laws thus making it have "greater moral weight" as you stated.

If someone is not privy to how our system works, than I would agree,
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  #23  
Old 7th June 2011, 03:54 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGiftOfLife View Post
One could argue that......
since the abortion laws can only change with the Supreme Court, and since the only person to appoint a Supreme Court judge is the president, and since anyone of the 9 justices can resign or die at any moment. It is paramount that we keep the best choice for president to appoint a justice that would change the abortion laws. This is the only "likely" way to change the abortion laws thus making it have "greater moral weight" as you stated.

If someone is not privy to how our system works, than I would agree,

That is one factor, but the likelihood of that happening and of it having a substantial affect on abortion is limited. Also, as I keep emphasizing, many pro-life candidates are not truly fully sincerely pro-life, so such a candidate might not choose a pro-life Justice.

You are certainly free to judge that abortion is the most important issue, that having a pro-life president outweighs other moral considerations, and therefore to vote for a pro-life candidate. I generally vote for pro-life candidates. Although, in certain local elections, there is no information on which candidates are pro-life.

However, a Catholic voter may not:

1. ignore every consequence of his vote, except concerning abortion
2. vote merely based on the label 'pro-life' and not on the reasonably anticipated consequences concerning the abortion issue, including likelihood of those consequences.
3. vote for a pro-life candidate if the voter reasonably anticipates that the vote will do more harm than good when all issues are considered.
4. intend to ignore the teaching of the Church on the basic principles of morality when voting
5. vote based on party politics, rather than morality

I am not telling Catholics to vote for pro-abortion candidates, but I am teaching how the basic principles of ethics apply to voting.
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  #24  
Old 7th June 2011, 07:40 PM
Mark
 
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I have not found anything that Sarah Palin stands for that I couldn't accept. She is a sound conservative on social and economic issues. No politician has taken a beaten like she and her family have from the liberal media and yet she is a survivor. I think the liberals attack her daily because they know she is 180 degrees contrast to Obama's positions, attractive and a practicing Christian. The liberal's would prefer a "moderate" republican to run so he/she is not such an contrast/extreme from Obama's radical liberation theology views.

I don't know how any Christian could vote for anyone who supports killing babies (can not think of a more grave sin). If a person is that warped they could not be trusted in any other decisions.
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  #25  
Old 7th June 2011, 08:17 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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At this point in the political process, if one is considering who to vote for in the Republical primary, there are several pro-life candidates. Maybe we could discuss which candidates are pro-life and to what extent their views agree or disagree with Church teaching.

Rick Santorum - Roman Catholic
prolife

Newt Gingrich - Roman Catholic (coverted from Baptist)
weakly prolife (see also)

Tim Pawlenty - Baptist
prolife

Ron Paul - Baptist
mixed record

Gary Johnson - Lutheran
pro-abortion

Herman Cain - associate minister in the National Baptist Convention
prolife

Mitt Romney - Mormon (non-Christian)
prolife

possible candidates:

Thaddeus McCotter - Roman Catholic
prolife

Michele Bachmann - Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod
prolife

Sarah Palin - non-denominational Christian
prolife

Jon Huntsman, Jr. - Mormon
prolife

Rick Perry - Methodist
prolife
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  #26  
Old 8th June 2011, 02:23 AM
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Sacredcello Sacredcello is offline
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In California, we are only allowed to vote in the primary for the candidate whose party we are registered in. Since I am not a registered Republican, I am not allowed to vote for any of the above candidates. That is, until one of them is nominated and goes to the general election in November. I would be interested in following and reading others comments, but I probably should not contribute since my vote doesn't count for the primary, anyway.
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  #27  
Old 8th June 2011, 11:40 AM
Mark
 
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What is a true Catholic political position on the poor? What is a poor person in the USA? One could easlily argue that the current welfare state in the USA contributes to being poor, not assisting it. We can learn from socialisitc governments that entitlements, by design, breeds complacency and indifference. Many people in today's USA society would rather do nothing and collect off the governement than work. Food stamp hand outs have doubled in the past 2.5 years.

I want a leader who can break down the smoke screen on big government and truely help the needy, not the greedy. Seems we have a government today that favors and exploits the greedy on both the top end and the lower end of society, while the middle class is taking a beating. With the Obama administration the smoke screen has been lifted towards the Dem's assisting the rich corporations with all kinds of governement perks. Both parties favor the rich corporations when it benefits them finacially.

So bring me a Democrat, Independent, or Republican who is honest, God fearing, with integrity and he/she has my vote. Enough of the playboy politicians and entitlement mentality that is detroying our society.
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  #28  
Old 8th June 2011, 08:53 PM
TheGiftOfLife
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Conte View Post
That is one factor, but the likelihood of that happening and of it having a substantial affect on abortion is limited. Also, as I keep emphasizing, many pro-life candidates are not truly fully sincerely pro-life, so such a candidate might not choose a pro-life Justice.

Ron, I should do better qualifying. I only was talking about presidential elections and I agree with you that local politics never deal with the abortion issue. However, state assemblyman and senators vote DIRECTLY on public funding of abortion.

When you say the likelihood, Im not sure that should play a roll since the only way to get a justice is through the president. Also, every candidate for president is asked about roe v wade.
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  #29  
Old 8th June 2011, 10:21 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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There are several prolife candidates in the primary. One cannot vote solely based on the abortion issue. Otherwise, which prolife candidate would you choose?

As a moral choice, voting must take account of all of the reasonably anticipated good and bad consequences of the act.
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  #30  
Old 10th June 2011, 01:48 AM
garabandalg garabandalg is offline
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Default isn't this an option.....?

Cannot one vote based on weighing many key issues, with abortion being the single most important, and breaking ties?
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