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  #101  
Old 9th March 2007, 09:52 PM
McJon
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hmm

I'm not sure I want to continue this line of dialog. I do admit that you guys seem to be quite well read on the subjects at hand. I also admit that many of my points have been made on emotion. What can I say? I'm an emotional guy! In talking with my brother about it today I've decided that maybe I am in fact a pacifist afterall. I never thought about that before. I guess thats why I never joined the military and maybe its a good thing that people like you are the guys who have to make these hard decisions. Anyway, its been a good discussion, and I look forward to whatever you guys post in the future.

Ron, any words of wisdom!?!?

Jon
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  #102  
Old 9th March 2007, 10:17 PM
quiz1
 
Posts: n/a
Default

If I may add - we understand the root cause of war is sin. So we will never be without war while we live on Earth. Sometimes war is unjustified. But we can't overlook that some wars are justified as well. Is Iraq justified? The Church says that reasonable people can debate it, but what we can't say is that all war in unjustifiable.

Why?

Because we can see from the OT that war was justified. David said, "Blessed be the LORD my Rock, Who trains my hands for war, And my fingers for battle (Psalm 144:1)." The Bible tells us David was rewarded by God for keeping all the Lord's commands.
Jesus is Lord. To say that war was justifiable in the OT but not today with the creation of the NT is denying that God is forever unchanging Heb 13:8. Jesus did not do away with the OT, he fulfilled it in the NT.

We can never forget that we are here to "Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked (Psalm 82:3-4).". There are wicked people in the world, God says to deliver people from them.

That is not to say war is good. Our duty is to say is war avoidable, and then act.
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  #103  
Old 9th March 2007, 10:39 PM
CRW
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Your post concerning the OT is right on the mark. However, Jesus ushers in a new covenant. The scriptures concerning divorce speak to this point. He did not fault Joseph, but the people of Joseph time. He did not repel the OT and divorce, but states that the new law is that divorce is not to be. Christ is Love and Christ is Peace.

War is hell but there are times that we must fight and defend our country. Those in the military depend on our Commander in Chief and Congress to make that decision. We are not in a position to vote on the matter. The USCCB supported members in the military during the Iraq war, although John Paul II was against the war.


Somehow we must make since of all this and simply do what duty calls.

Cecil
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  #104  
Old 10th March 2007, 01:41 AM
AI2001
 
Posts: n/a
Default These materials will help you bone up on islam, the danger it poses to The West

McJon

Quote:
Originally Posted by McJon View Post
Well I see you have your mind made up. Hopefully at some point I am able to come to a decision regarding the war that is as definitive.

Qur'an, 3 translations:

The Noble Qur'an

Qur'an, 4 translations:

Qur'an.org

Sunnah and Hadith

Any books by Robert Spencer, these two are particularly good:

The Truth about Muhammad, Founder of the World's Most Intolerant Religion

The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades)

Spencer and others website titled:

JihadWatch.org

Books by Sergei Trifkovic:

The Sword of the Prophet

Defeating Jihad

Book by Andrew G. Bostom:

The Legacy of Jihad

The Legacy of Jihad is an excellent source material, it uses only islamic texts as well as texts of the people that were conquered.

There is a poem in that book, on page 50 I believe, that describes the sacking of Jerusalem by moslem jihadists, the rape of women, their slavery, the sodomy moslem men engaged in, etc.

EYE OPENING to say the very least.


Muhammad Prophet of Doom

Books by Efraim Karsh:

Empires of the Sand

Islamic Imperialism

Fiqh:

The Reliance of the Traveller

A book of FIQH approved by Al Azhar university. An excellent source when it comes to the proscriptions moslems must abide by, check out their 'requirements' while visiting the lavatory and the punishment for apostasy. If you happen to have the Reliance of the Traveller at home, there is not one moslem or moslem apologist that can pull the wool over your eyes when they tell you that DEATH IS NOT THE PUNISHMENT FOR APOSTASY, because it is or any other subject, anything and everything is inside that book.

The Center for the Study of Political Islam All 9 to 10 of their short books.

New books, but they have an interesting twist when it comes to studying islam, they make great sense, hard to read especially if you do not want to come face to face with facts about exactly how many lives the 1400 yrs of jihad has claimed.

Any of the books by Bernard Lewis.

Bernard Lewis, great reputation and he blew Edward Said's theory of Orientalisam (book of same title) into a billion pieces, since his 'predictions' concerning islam and the resurgetn jihad have come true.

Lewis is a bit soft on islam, or perhaps I should say he speaks of it as if he was looking at it via rose colored glasses.


Books by Bat Ye'or:

Eurabia: The Euro Arab Axis

The Decline of Eastern Christianity Under Islam: From Jihad to Dhimmitude


Islam & Dhimmitude: Where Civilizations Collide

The Dhimmi: Jews & Christians Under Islam

Bat Ye'or, Daughter of the Nile, she studies dhimmitude (the islamic concept of the dhimma - protected people a.k.a. people of the book a.k.a. Jews & Christians).

Also her book Eurabia, written as a warning for the United States about creeping islamization and tracking of Europes voluntary islamization helped by their intelligenstia, via various 'accords' undertaken.


Also an excellent resource:

Answering-Islam.org


A website that is under attack by the 'electronic jihad' frequently.

Also:

TheReligionofPeace.com a website that tracks jihadist attacks around the world, I believe they began after the 9-11 attacks.

Islam-Watch, a webiste operated by ex-moslems.

Dr. Homa Darabi Foundation, make sure to visit the link titled Khomeini and read about the 'perversion' that islam is and then come back and tell me that it is not evil.

Apostates of Islam, when you visit there and read the testimonials of the apostates, don't forget to view the footage of islam's punishments: stonings of women, chopping off of hands, etc.

Visit MEMRI.ORG to not only read translated articles from islamic papers, but also footage from their TVs, etc.

There is more where that came from, let me know when you need more material to help make up your mind.
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  #105  
Old 12th March 2007, 12:54 AM
Paladin
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ai2001

Thanks for the resource materials. I will seriously study these.
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  #106  
Old 2nd February 2012, 11:19 PM
jbbt9 jbbt9 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 560
Default 2007 thread- Excellent resource on Islam-worth dipping into again

Quote:
Originally Posted by AI2001 View Post
McJon



Qur'an, 3 translations:

The Noble Qur'an

Qur'an, 4 translations:

Qur'an.org

Sunnah and Hadith

Any books by Robert Spencer, these two are particularly good:

The Truth about Muhammad, Founder of the World's Most Intolerant Religion

The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades)

Spencer and others website titled:

JihadWatch.org

Books by Sergei Trifkovic:

The Sword of the Prophet

Defeating Jihad

Book by Andrew G. Bostom:

The Legacy of Jihad

The Legacy of Jihad is an excellent source material, it uses only islamic texts as well as texts of the people that were conquered.

There is a poem in that book, on page 50 I believe, that describes the sacking of Jerusalem by moslem jihadists, the rape of women, their slavery, the sodomy moslem men engaged in, etc.

EYE OPENING to say the very least.


Muhammad Prophet of Doom

Books by Efraim Karsh:

Empires of the Sand

Islamic Imperialism

Fiqh:

The Reliance of the Traveller

A book of FIQH approved by Al Azhar university. An excellent source when it comes to the proscriptions moslems must abide by, check out their 'requirements' while visiting the lavatory and the punishment for apostasy. If you happen to have the Reliance of the Traveller at home, there is not one moslem or moslem apologist that can pull the wool over your eyes when they tell you that DEATH IS NOT THE PUNISHMENT FOR APOSTASY, because it is or any other subject, anything and everything is inside that book.

The Center for the Study of Political Islam All 9 to 10 of their short books.

New books, but they have an interesting twist when it comes to studying islam, they make great sense, hard to read especially if you do not want to come face to face with facts about exactly how many lives the 1400 yrs of jihad has claimed.

Any of the books by Bernard Lewis.

Bernard Lewis, great reputation and he blew Edward Said's theory of Orientalisam (book of same title) into a billion pieces, since his 'predictions' concerning islam and the resurgetn jihad have come true.

Lewis is a bit soft on islam, or perhaps I should say he speaks of it as if he was looking at it via rose colored glasses.


Books by Bat Ye'or:

Eurabia: The Euro Arab Axis

The Decline of Eastern Christianity Under Islam: From Jihad to Dhimmitude


Islam & Dhimmitude: Where Civilizations Collide

The Dhimmi: Jews & Christians Under Islam

Bat Ye'or, Daughter of the Nile, she studies dhimmitude (the islamic concept of the dhimma - protected people a.k.a. people of the book a.k.a. Jews & Christians).

Also her book Eurabia, written as a warning for the United States about creeping islamization and tracking of Europes voluntary islamization helped by their intelligenstia, via various 'accords' undertaken.


Also an excellent resource:

Answering-Islam.org


A website that is under attack by the 'electronic jihad' frequently.

Also:

TheReligionofPeace.com a website that tracks jihadist attacks around the world, I believe they began after the 9-11 attacks.

Islam-Watch, a webiste operated by ex-moslems.

Dr. Homa Darabi Foundation, make sure to visit the link titled Khomeini and read about the 'perversion' that islam is and then come back and tell me that it is not evil.

Apostates of Islam, when you visit there and read the testimonials of the apostates, don't forget to view the footage of islam's punishments: stonings of women, chopping off of hands, etc.

Visit MEMRI.ORG to not only read translated articles from islamic papers, but also footage from their TVs, etc.

There is more where that came from, let me know when you need more material to help make up your mind.

I suspect newer members may find some of the above resource helpful. Also, does anyone know if Israel ever got the airspace they were seeking or do they still have it

God bless

jbbt9
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