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  #1  
Old 21st October 2007, 12:49 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Default Study of Sirach

I'm willing to guide the group through my translation of Sirach, if there is enough interest and participation. There is a Prologue plus 51 chapters.

Please use my translation of Sirach for this Bible study:
http://www.sacredbible.org/catholic/OT-26_Sirach.htm

Read the Prologue to begin.

Some background on the book.
It is called Liber Ecclesiasticus, meaning 'Church book' or 'the book of/belonging to the Church'. This book used to be read very frequently in Church (but now sadly it has fallen out of use).

Many modern-day Catholic Biblical scholars tend to be heavily influenced by their Protestant counterparts, and as a result, the Deuterocanonical books have received less attention than they deserve. Sirach is a Deuterorcanonical book, that is, it is one of the 7 books, plus parts of two other books, which Protestants do not accept as inspired.

1. Baruch
2. Tobit
3. Judith
4. Wisdom
5. Sirach
6. 1 Maccabees
7. 2. Maccabees
and parts of Daniel and Esther

These books were all written later than the other books of the OT, and are not generally accepted by Jews as part of their canon.

Sirach was written by the grandson of 'Jesus son of Sirach' (Jesus ben Sirach) based on a book he found among his grandfather's belongings. He translated the book from Hebrew to Greek and also substantially edited and added to it.
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Old 21st October 2007, 02:33 PM
Joey Joey is offline
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"{P:8} Then, after much attentiveness to doctrine over a length of time, I brought to a close the things being considered, so as to offer this book for those who are willing to apply their mind and to learn how they ought to conduct their way of life,
{P:9} for those who have decided to form their life in accord with the law of the Lord."


This reason alone is why we should participate in the reading and discussion of Sirach. I'm in...thanks, Ron.
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Last edited by Joey : 21st October 2007 at 02:35 PM. Reason: messed up the quote
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  #3  
Old 21st October 2007, 02:42 PM
Padraig
 
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I have read the Prologue (I think)
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  #4  
Old 21st October 2007, 04:49 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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[Sirach Prologue]
{P:1} The wisdom of many great things has been revealed to us through the law, and the prophets, and the other books that followed these. Concerning these things, Israel ought to be praised, because of doctrine and wisdom. For it is necessary, not only for those who are speaking, but even for outsiders, to be skillful, both in speaking and in writing, so as to become very learned.
{P:2} My grandfather Jesus, after he gave himself fully to a diligent reading of the law, and the prophets, and the other books that were handed down to us by our ancestors, also wanted to write something himself, about the things that pertain to doctrine and wisdom, so that those who desire to learn and to become skillful in these things would be more and more attentive in mind, and would be strengthened to live according to the law.
{P:3} And so, I exhort you to approach with benevolence, and to perform the reading with attentive study, and to be forbearing in these things when we may seem, while pursuing the image of wisdom, to fall short in the composition of words.
{P:4} For the Hebrew words are deficient when they have been translated into another language.
{P:5} And not only these words, but also the law itself, and the prophets, and the remainder of the books, have no small difference from when they have been spoken in their own language.
{P:6} For in the time of king Ptolemy Euergetes, in the thirty-eighth year after I had arrived in Egypt, after I had been there for a long time, I found, left behind there, books with a doctrine neither small nor contemptible.
{P:7} And so I considered it to be both good and necessary for me to apply some significant diligence and labor in order to translate this book.
{P:8} Then, after much attentiveness to doctrine over a length of time, I brought to a close the things being considered, so as to offer this book for those who are willing to apply their mind and to learn how they ought to conduct their way of life,
{P:9} for those who have decided to form their life in accord with the law of the Lord.
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Old 21st October 2007, 06:33 PM
CRW
 
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{P:3} And so, I exhort you to approach with benevolence, and to perform the reading with attentive study, and to be forbearing in these things when we may seem, while pursuing the image of wisdom, to fall short in the composition of words.
{P:4} For the Hebrew words are deficient when they have been translated into another language.
{P:5} And not only these words, but also the law itself, and the prophets, and the remainder of the books, have no small difference from when they have been spoken in their own language.

I guess this is why St Augustine stated the following:

"for all that has been said about the manner of interpreting Scripture is ultimately subject to the judgment of the Church which exercises the divinely conferred commission and ministry of watching over and interpreting the Word of God and but I would not believe in the Gospel had not the authority of the Catholic Church already move me" (CCC 119).

Cecil
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  #6  
Old 21st October 2007, 11:06 PM
Rob Rob is offline
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I am willing to participate.


{P:1} The wisdom of many great things has been revealed to us through the law, and the prophets, and the other books that followed these....

Is this a veiled reference to the books of the New Testaments that have followed the law and prophets?



{P:4} For the Hebrew words are deficient when they have been translated into another language.
{P:5} And not only these words, but also the law itself, and the prophets, and the remainder of the books, have no small difference from when they have been spoken in their own language.

What does this mean? Is the author saying something about the differences in language between different versions of Scripture? For example one meaning becomes clearer in the Latin version than the Greek.



{P:6} For in the time of king Ptolemy Euergetes, in the thirty-eighth year after I had arrived in Egypt, after I had been there for a long time, I found, left behind there, books with a doctrine neither small nor contemptible.
{P:7} And so I considered it to be both good and necessary for me to apply some significant diligence and labor in order to translate this book.
{P:8} Then, after much attentiveness to doctrine over a length of time, I brought to a close the things being considered, so as to offer this book for those who are willing to apply their mind and to learn how they ought to conduct their way of life,

I see a reference to the transmission of Tradition and Scripture here, or is it my impression? The author is saying that although the books he found in Egypt were not corrupt or wrong, it's through meditation and prayerful study over a length of time that things becomed more clear to him. Something similar happens to the transmission of Tradition and Scripture in the Church, the meanings of Scripture become more clear after much meditation and prayerful study.
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Last edited by Rob : 21st October 2007 at 11:10 PM.
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  #7  
Old 22nd October 2007, 01:22 AM
Mario
 
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Default Hopefully.

Ron,

When I'm able I will apply myself to the chapter at hand.

In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary!
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  #8  
Old 22nd October 2007, 04:51 AM
themilitantcatholic
 
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Count me in.
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  #9  
Old 22nd October 2007, 10:22 AM
Padraig
 
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I can't find the Book of Sirach in my Bible!! It is Protestant, I wonder maybe if they have dumped Sirach?
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  #10  
Old 22nd October 2007, 10:30 AM
Rob Rob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Padraig View Post
I can't find the Book of Sirach in my Bible!! It is Protestant, I wonder maybe if they have dumped Sirach?

Padraig,

It's a pity that our brothers in Christ have rejected such wonderful books as Wisdom and Sirach which help to enlighten human wisdom toward the law and the rest of Scripture. Some protestant Bibles include what they consider deuterocanonical books but at the end of the book, some others just miss these books entirely, so probably you have one of these publications.
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