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  #1  
Old 4th August 2010, 02:42 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Default the condemnation of homosexuality in the Bible

There are many Bible passages on morality, including sexual morality. There are also specific passages that condemn homosexual acts as always gravely immoral. This series of posts will consider all of the passages in the Bible which teach definitively that homosexual acts are gravely immoral.

And this condemnation of the acts implies that the orientation toward those acts is a grave disorder.

The Jews in ancient times have always understood the Scriptures as condemning homosexual acts. And the Church from Her earliests days has also understood Scripture, in both Testaments, as condemning homosexual acts. So any modern re-interpretation, which seeks to justify homosexuality, is contrary to Tradition and to the constant interpretation of the Church. The Magisterium also not only condemns homosexual acts, but cites Scripture in support of this condemnation.
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Old 4th August 2010, 09:24 PM
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I look forward to this discussion, considering that a California judge has today struck down the Prop. 8 ban on gay marriage as unconstitutional:

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-...nclick_check=1
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Old 4th August 2010, 09:59 PM
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Here is another news article on the subject:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/05/us/05prop.html
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Old 4th August 2010, 10:10 PM
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[Genesis]
{13:13} But the men of Sodom were very wicked, and they were sinners before the Lord beyond measure.

{18:20} And so the Lord said, "The outcry from Sodom and Gomorrah has been multiplied, and their sin has become exceedingly grievous.

{19:4} But before they went to bed, the men of the city surrounded the house, from boys to old men, all the people together.
{19:5} And they called out to Lot, and they said to him: "Where are the men who entered to you in the night? Bring them out here, so that we may know them."

The men of Sodom wanted to commit the sin of homosexual acts with the men who were visiting Lot. (These men were actually Angels, but everyone thought that they were men.) This sin was widely accepted in that city, even as if it were a right, and they were accustomed to committing this sin often. For they all gathered together to demand the same sin, even with men who were merely visiting the city. And this sin must have been long-standing in that city, since it had permeated their society thoroughly, from boys even to old men.

Now some persons claim that the sin condemned by the story of Sodom is solely the sin of rape. But this is obviously not the case. The attempted rape of the men visiting Lot is certainly a sin, but rape has occurred in other cases in the stories of the Bible, and God did not destroy the entire city where the rape or attempted rape occurred. The sin of the whole city of Sodom was that all the men, from young to old, were willing to commit unnatural sexual acts; they apparently did so as a matter of course. And so Sacred Scripture tells us that there was an outcry about the sins of Sodom even before this incident at Lot's house.

{19:6} Lot went out to them, and blocking the door behind him, he said:
{19:7} "Do not, I ask you, my brothers, do not be willing to commit this evil.
{19:8} I have two daughters who as yet have not known man. I will bring them out to you; abuse them as it pleases you, provided that you do no evil to these men, because they have entered under the shadow of my roof."

Lot sinned by offering his two daughters to the men of Sodom, for this type of formal cooperation with evil is always immoral. But the point that Sacred Scripture is making here is that some sexual sins are of a more serious type than other sexual sins. Unnatural sexual acts are more gravely disordered than sinful heterosexual acts.

{19:24} Therefore, the Lord rained upon Sodom and Gomorrah sulphur and fire, from the Lord, out of heaven.

The sin of Gomorrah is not specified in Sacred Scripture. But Sodom and Gomorrah received the same punishment of destruction, therefore both cities were committing grave sins throughout their populations. Sodom sinned by unnatural sexual acts between persons of the same gender. It may be the case that Gomorrah sinned by unnatural sexual acts between a man and a woman. These two cities were given the same punishment, for different but similar sins.
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Old 4th August 2010, 11:31 PM
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I believe your interpretation is correct, Ron. However, I have often heard it said that the sin of those in Sodom was that of being inhospitable toward the guests (angels). It is said that this type of sin - demanding sex from the visitors - bears no resemblance to a "loving and committed relationship between two people."

Incidentally, a member of my parish who is openly homosexual, yet firmly identified as a "Catholic" (having graduated from Notre Dame University), is cheering about the news today about Prop. 8 being declared unconstitutional. He sees no contradiction between his lifestyle and what the Church plainly teaches.
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Old 5th August 2010, 12:12 PM
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[quote=Sacredcello;33867]I believe your interpretation is correct, Ron. However, I have often heard it said that the sin of those in Sodom was that of being inhospitable toward the guests (angels). It is said that this type of sin - demanding sex from the visitors

Gosh they must be on drugs are they serious ???????
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Old 5th August 2010, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacredcello View Post
I believe your interpretation is correct, Ron. However, I have often heard it said that the sin of those in Sodom was that of being inhospitable toward the guests (angels). It is said that this type of sin - demanding sex from the visitors - bears no resemblance to a "loving and committed relationship between two people."

This type of re-interpretation of the Bible ignores the teaching of Tradition on the meaning of this and other related passages, ignores the teaching of the Magisterium, and seeks any means to make the Bible seem to be in accord with the false 'dogmas' of secular society.

Of course, there is no indication in the behavior of the men of Sodom that they had any interest in love, or loving commitment, or a loving relationship with anyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacredcello View Post
Incidentally, a member of my parish who is openly homosexual, yet firmly identified as a "Catholic" (having graduated from Notre Dame University), is cheering about the news today about Prop. 8 being declared unconstitutional. He sees no contradiction between his lifestyle and what the Church plainly teaches.

Many persons who call themselves Catholic adhere first and foremost to the teachings of secular society. Only when a Catholic teaching does not conflict with a secular teaching do they believe what is taught.
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Old 5th August 2010, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
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Of course, there is no indication in the behavior of the men of Sodom that they had any interest in love, or loving commitment, or a loving relationship with anyone.

Yes, this is exactly the point of those who say that the sin of the men of Sodom is not like a monogamous same-sex relationship between two people in which they love and care for one another over a period of 30 - 40 years or more. I personally know people who have been in a monogamous relationship for this period of time. They would not ever do what these men in Sodom are doing - treating their guests with such disrespect, and obvious lack of love. I do not agree with those who interpret the Bible in this manner, but there is definitely a difference between the behavior in the Biblical account and those in monogamous relationships.

There are other passages in the Bible that speak clearly against homosexual acts, so I believe that any attempt to justify it is unfounded.
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Old 5th August 2010, 07:46 PM
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It seems that back then there were only two towns or cities (Sodom and Gomorrah); but today, homosexuality is being spread openly all over the world, in Spain, Argentina, the US, etc.

It seems that back then that was an open sinfulness, people knew that that was wrong, recognized it and did it, those who committed those sins were considered 'mad' men; but today people are 'legalizing' it with proper papers and documents, making it seem as if those acts are 'normal', that there is nothing wrong with it and that people who commit those acts are being considered as 'normal'- 'good' educated and 'exemplary' men.

Last edited by Brother : 5th August 2010 at 07:52 PM.
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Old 5th August 2010, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacredcello View Post
Yes, this is exactly the point of those who say that the sin of the men of Sodom is not like a monogamous same-sex relationship between two people in which they love and care for one another over a period of 30 - 40 years or more. I personally know people who have been in a monogamous relationship for this period of time. They would not ever do what these men in Sodom are doing

Yes, but one sin leads to another. There are many Catholic couples who use contraception, but who would not commit other sins, such as direct abortion (although they ignore that many forms of contraception are abortifacient). There are many persons who commit one type of sexual sin, but not another. But all grave sin, especially unrepentant grave sin, leads society to greater sinfulness. Contraception leads to abortion. Same-sex relationships that are monogamous nevertheless lead society to ever greater sinfulness. When one grave sin is called good, other even more grave sins become more likely and more prevalent.

And this is exactly what has happened with the priesthood. Admitting homosexuals who are supposedly chaste to the priesthood, leads to the admission of priests who are gay and sexually active, and this leads to the admission of pedophiles. A homosexual is not a pedophile, but the breakdown in morality of the one sin leads to the other sin.

So a society that approves of gay relationships and gay marriages will inevitably see an increase in other, seemingly unrelated, sexual sins and crimes. The erosion of sexual morality in one way leads to further erosion in other ways.
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