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  #1  
Old 13th April 2007, 04:05 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Default the Warning and the Miracle

I'm starting a new thread mainly becase the one main thread about the secrets articles has become so long.

Concerning the fact that I place the Miracle more than a year after the Warning (in contradiction to what one of the visionaries has said):

It is not so unusual, within true private revelations from God, or from Mary, to find some minor errors. These errors cannot be the result of God or anyone in Heaven making a mistake; God is infallible and all the Blessed in Heaven are also free from error due to their Beatific Vision of God. But the one receiving the private revelation can misunderstand, and anyone who is writing down or repeating the private revelation is also subject to possible error. Thus the Church considers even true private revelations to be fallible.

The visionary of Garabandal named Mari-Loli has said that the Miracle will happen within one year after The Warning; this has been widely interpreted to mean within 12 calendar months. But to my knowledge, Mari-Loli has never quoted the Virgin Mary word for word on that point; in fact, she has said that she can't quite remember when Mary spoke about this to her. Mary may have said that the Miracle occurs about a year after the Warning, or in the next calendar year, or some other similar wording. We don't have the exact quote; Mari-Loli apparently cannot remember the exact words.

Furthermore, Mari-Loli admits that she does not know the date of the Warning, only its calendar year. She admits that she does not know how much time will elapse between the two events. She says that she does not know if the Miracle occurs in the same calendar year as the Warning, or not. Therefore, she does not know the date of the Miracle. She has never said that the Virgin Mary specifically said “within 12 months,” and she does not seem to remember the exact wording of what was said on this point. Therefore, it is clear that Mari-Loli does not know that the Miracle will occur within 12 calendar months from the Warning.

Also, notice that the dates for the Warning and the Miracle are separated by 12 months. The Warning occurs in a particular month, then there are 12 consecutive months that do not contain the Warning or the Miracle, and then there is the month which does contain the Miracle. Mari-Loli could easily have misunderstood being told that these two events are separated by 12 months, as if they would occur within 12 months. Or perhaps she was told that the Miracle will occur the following calendar year, and she misunderstood this as if it was within a year.

Now let's look at the dates and times of the Warning and the Miracle. These two events occur exactly one year and 33 days apart. The number 33 refers to the number of years in Christ's life at His Crucifixion. Since the Warning is the first secret of Medjugorje, it will be announced by the priest chosen to announce it, Fr. Petar, three days beforehand, on April 7th. The actual date of the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ in the first century A.D. was April 7th. In the liturgical calendar, the Warning (the Day of Repentance; the first secret) occurs on Good Friday, April 10th, when we remember the Crucifixion. The subsequent Day of Consolation (the second secret) occurs on Easter Sunday, April 12th. And the Miracle (the third secret) occurs on Ascension Thursday of the next calendar year, on May 13th. So the dates for these three events (the first three secrets), which include the Warning and the Miracle, fit perfectly with the liturgical calendar. This makes sense because God, in performing these miraculous and unprecedented worldwide acts, wants everyone to know that the Catholic Faith is above all other religions. So he conforms these events to the liturgical calendar of the Catholic Church.

Interestingly, the dates for Good Friday and Easter Sunday in the Orthodox liturgical calendar do not coincide with Good Friday and Easter Sunday in the Catholic liturgical calendar in the year 2009, when the Warning (first secret) and the second secret occur. But the date of the Miracle (third secret) in the next year, 2010, is Ascension Thursday in both the Catholic and Orthodox calendars.
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Old 13th April 2007, 04:12 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Also, I've learned when studying theology, that the teachings of the Saints and Doctors of the Church about any theological point are often not in agreement and cannot be reconciled. Some holy persons sometimes said or taught particular points which were in error. In studying theology, one must learn to set aside certain assertion of even Saints and Doctors, because they are not infallible; if one does not learn to look for and screen out various possible errors, then one will not be able to make sense of the teachings of Saints and Doctors.

The same process occurs in Biblical chronology. In trying to determine the dates of events in NT times, one must compare various sources of information and learn not to accept every assertion. Instead, one must judge that certain assertions are erroneous and should be set aside. One cannot reconcile every statement by every sources about when events occured in NT times.

The same approach must be used in eschatology. Even when reading only the writings of Saints and Blesseds about the future, not every statement by every Saint is in agreement. There are obviously some errors about the future made by Saints. So, to determine what to believe about the future, one must evaluate various assertions and screen out those that do not fit with more weighty sources (such as Scripture).

The same approach applies to private revelation. The visionaries are fallible. They could easily have misunderstood particular points. One such point is the claim that the Miracle will occur less than a year after the Warning. Based on my interpretation of Scripture, I've determined that the Miracle occurs more than a year after the Warning.


Ron
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  #3  
Old 13th April 2007, 04:35 PM
needDivineMercy needDivineMercy is offline
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Default quick question about Warning: non-electonic equipment & Time of event

Ron,

Do you have any sense of the time of day that the Warning may happen? (i.e. 3PM in Jerusalem)
Also, do you think that non-electronic cameras work for the event in the sky?

Thank you and God bless!
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Old 13th April 2007, 06:46 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by needDivineMercy View Post
Ron,

Do you have any sense of the time of day that the Warning may happen? (i.e. 3PM in Jerusalem)
Also, do you think that non-electronic cameras work for the event in the sky?

Thank you and God bless!

I don't know the answer to either question.

Ron
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  #5  
Old 14th April 2007, 04:32 AM
Hope
 
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I've learned a lot about apparitions and the tribulation since joining CP. I might be delusional, but the more I consider these things, the more I believe that I got a preview of the Warning in my dream about the crumbling church. If I'm not crazy, having experienced what I experienced, I think that Ron's description of what the Warning will be and what it will not be is very accurate.

In part of the dream I stood alone before God. I didn't see Him, but it was as if I left this world and was standing in a gray and foggy place somewhere between heaven and hell. I was aware of God in a way that made me feel totally vulnerable and exposed, like I imagine Adam and Eve felt when they tried to hide their nakedness from God.

I wasn't meeting a God with arms wide open. Instead, I was like a convict going before a Judge. Yet, the Judge did not have utter a word or declare a verdict. I knew my guilt and I knew that the Judge knew my guilt too, so there was no verbal exchange. My life did not flash before my eyes. Most sins were not singled out, but instead I saw the cumulative effect of all my sins, aquired throughout my lifetime. They were visible as a darkness in my soul--like soot on intricate glass--Hard to describe.

Although it is impossible to see myself as God sees me, I understood that the way I saw myself was not how God saw me. I got a better idea of His persective and I had no beauty left in me. This seems obvious, but the reality of experiencing this is worse than it sounds. Especially, because there was a moment where I believed I was undergoing a judgement that would result in an everlasting sentence. If the Warning is anything like this, I tell you, there may not exist a more horrendous prospect of the finality of a future separated from that which you are made. If that makes sense at all. Let me try again . . . there really are no words to adequately describe the terror involved in thinking that life is over, there is nothing more to do, there is no chance at reconciliation, and Hell is set in stone. It is the death of all Hope. The end of Joy . . .

The God I had created in my mind (even though I was an athiest, go figure) was not be the same God I was experiencing. The truth of who I was . . . was undeniable and undefendable. Just when I thought Hell was a certainty, I was given a second chance. Maybe the Warning will be a second chance--a chance at reconciliation, a Great Mercy. It seems unbelievable that everyone will not take advantage of this. But trust me when I say this was not be a joyous moment, but a terrible revelation.

There were a lot of false notions to sift through--shattered ideas about God and my own pride and undeserved sense of worthiness. My world was rocked. I saw Jesus in all His glory, huge and full of power, in the sky. Light was bursting forth from the wounds in his hands and feet and chest. At the time of the dream, I knew that Jesus was actually spiked through the wrists and not the hands, and this (among another thing that may have been cleared up) caused me to question the origin of what I saw, but still, the appearance of Jesus as the mighty God was totally awesome.

Anyway, it took me years (less time than most will have after the warning) to seek His mercy. If my dream counts as anything, I think that many will acknowledge their wretchedness and return to Him, but many won't. And many will wait too long.

Dejavu anyone? No, you're not losing your mind. I posted this earlier today and then deleted it. I had second thoughts about touting my opinion based on a dream, which I shared a while back, but now I've reposted it again. Sorry if I made you read this twice . But again, I really think that Ron nailed his description of The Warning. Since I feel he was so accurate here, although I am leary of precise dates, I am confidant that he is accurate in many of his other predictions too.

Last edited by Hope : 14th April 2007 at 04:41 AM.
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  #6  
Old 14th April 2007, 05:27 AM
Hope
 
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I've been thinking about the sight in the sky that people are supposed to see all over the world. I think that Ron speculates in his articles that everyone might see an angel, but is it possible that it we might see an apparition of Jesus in the sky instead? Maybe Jesus will make a quick appearance on the scene for all to see and then go back from whence He came.

In light of the Second Coming, this sounds unbiblical, doesn't it?

What exactly does the bible say about the Second Coming? Is the term "Second Coming" straight from the bible, or is it something that came later? I guess what I'm getting at, did Jesus say that He would not return again until the end of the world? Or did He say that He would come at the end of the world, which leaves open the possibilities of additional appearances before the end?

I guess this is one thing that has made me doubt the validity of my dream over the years. Maybe this part of the dream was symbolic. But, then again, maybe Jesus will appear as a visible apparition to all the world like He did in my dream?

I'm not totally buying into my own theory about this, so feel free to rip it apart. I will try not to be offended when you do .
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  #7  
Old 14th April 2007, 06:54 AM
Paul Bellett Paul Bellett is offline
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Default Liturgical calendar of the Catholic Church

It is interesting to note that Ron has stated that these Garabandal/Medjugorje events conform to the liturgical calendar of the Catholic Church.
As for the Miracle happening in May it appears to conform to the Sanctoral Cycle of the Church - More details regarding this are at http://www.fisheaters.com/sanctoral.html
Notice that the month of May is exclusively 'Dedicated to the Blessed Virgin'.
We all know that the Blessed Virgin Mary appeared at Garabandal under title of "Our Lady of Carmel".
In F. SANCHEZ-VENTURA Y PASCUAL 's book 'The apparitions of GARABANDAL' ,
On orders from the parish priest, the little girls asked the Vision why she sometimes appeared under different titles. The reply came back: "I am Mary, the Blessed Virgin, and there is but one Blessed Virgin."
With regards to the Miracle of the Sun in Fatima, this also seems to fit the Santoral cycle of the church for October, as she then said "I am the Lady of the Rosary"

Rgds Paul

Last edited by Paul Bellett : 14th April 2007 at 07:28 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 14th April 2007, 07:25 AM
Paul Bellett Paul Bellett is offline
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Just a further note to my previous post, for the month of April regarding the occurrance of "The Warning", this Sanctoral month is 'Dedicated to the Blessed Sacrament', so you couldn't get a better fit for the holy week of Easter.

Rgds Paul

Last edited by Paul Bellett : 14th April 2007 at 07:27 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 14th April 2007, 11:37 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Hope,

I think that your dream was about the Warning.
Your statement that we will not see ourselves as God sees us is correct.
Many of the false private revelations claim that we will see ourselves as God sees us; they are wrong.

My opinion on the site of the nailmarks is that it was in the anatomical wrist, which is in the heel of the hand.

No, I don't think that Jesus will appear in the sky. Conchita said the event or sign in the sky begins with the letter 'A'. Also, the Warning is not specific to Christianity; it is given to everyone; it does not inform everyone that Christianity is the Way.

The Warning is not the return of Jesus in any sense. However, it is the beginning of a long period of time which prepares for His eventual return.

Hope, you saw Jesus in your dream, but that was specific to you. Persons who have culpably rejected Christianity will know at the Warning their sin. But the Warning is unique to each person; not everyone will have the same experience.
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Old 14th April 2007, 11:48 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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One of the member pointed out to me that:

April 10th (the Warning) is the 100th day of the year

May 13th (the Miracle) is the 133rd day of the year


Ron
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