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  #1  
Old 3rd April 2008, 02:00 AM
Nachete
 
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Default mysticism in tother religions

Long time ago I though that Christian mystics where one of the proofs that Catholic theachings are true. However, I was perhaps too ignorant. I came to know other kinds of spiritualism, and after researching a lot, I came to the conclusion that there're mystics in almost everyreligion. They use though different techniques to achieve that mystic state of union with "the Absolute". This is specially true in Sufism (islam), hinduism and Buddism (yogic meditation)

I'm not an expert so I don't know what conclussions should be extracted. I think all feel the same experience, but they explain it according to their own tradition. What most disturbs me is that they seem to show what at least could be called preternatural fenomena, if not supernatural, (visions and levitation being the most common things), healing, etc. I've even read about sufists experiencing Muhammad's war wounds (I haven't contrasted this). Some conclude that it's due to the power of the mind (parapsicologists), leaving no ground for God and graces. Other say, following oriental spiritualism that God is all and we can find our own divinity through those techiniques of mediditation and holiness.

Assuming that God cannot contradict Himself, real miracles can only testify to the True Faith. What (theological, at least) explanation can we give to those (mystical) phenomena?
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  #2  
Old 3rd April 2008, 11:16 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Preternatural phenomena are, by definition, from angels, not from God. So some of these phenomena could be from fallen angels (levitation, seemingly mystical experiences, false stigmata, etc.).

It is possible for a sincere person who is not a Christian to receive sanctifying grace, in what is called a Baptism of desire. So it is possible for persons in othe religions to pray and move closer to God. But it is not true that there is an equality among mystics. Christian mystics have a knowledge of God that is far above the limited knowledge of God in other religions, including Judaism (a true religion established by God).
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  #3  
Old 7th April 2008, 04:57 PM
Beeline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nachete View Post
...
Long time ago I though that Christian mystics where one of the proofs that Catholic theachings are true. However, I was perhaps too ignorant. I came to know other kinds of spiritualism, and after researching a lot, I came to the conclusion that there're mystics in almost everyreligion.

..

My understanding was that Catholic mystics were the most gifted and that their were fewer and less gifted Non-Catholic Christian mystics.
I did not know anything about Jewish mystics but as
Ron states there is less there compared to the Catholic faith.

The important concept to know is that God speaks to all
people.

As an aside, my reversion back to Catholicism was through
a very gifted lay Catholic mystic. Like Padre Pio he knows whats going on in my life and my current thoughts/themes. The fruit is good, but at the same time I am on guard and think all things.
I put my trust in the Lord.
This particular mystic believes that Garbandal and Medjugorje are true. It may all be fallible personal opinion or some relevation to him or a mix...I do not know.

Last edited by Beeline : 7th April 2008 at 05:03 PM.
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  #4  
Old 7th April 2008, 06:05 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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which mystic is this?
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  #5  
Old 7th April 2008, 08:06 PM
Agobard
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nachete View Post
I came to the conclusion that there're mystics in almost everyreligion. They use though different techniques to achieve that mystic state of union with "the Absolute". This is specially true in Sufism (islam), hinduism and Buddism (yogic meditation)
I'm not an expert so I don't know what conclussions should be extracted. I think all feel the same experience, but they explain it according to their own tradition.

I'm also not an expert but it seems to me very strange. Can it be truly knowledge of God outside christianity??? By power, possibilities that comes from natural human mind, intelect, there is a way to discover that there is one God, a way to find, understand basis of God's nature. But union with "the Absolute", expirience of GODS LOVE is only in Jesus, by the grace, not nature. Jesus said I am the way, truth and life. This "union" whith God outside baptism sacrament can be just empty human feelings, nothing special.
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  #6  
Old 7th April 2008, 09:25 PM
Beeline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Conte View Post
which mystic is this?

lay person,very low key, not publicly known , circulates in So. Calif parishes, very active in the church.

Gifts for helping people towards conversion, interpesonal
relations and healing.

Last edited by Beeline : 7th April 2008 at 09:32 PM.
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  #7  
Old 7th April 2008, 09:37 PM
Truthseeker Truthseeker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeline View Post
lay person,very low key, not publicly known , circulates in So. Calif parishes, very active in the church.

Gifts for helping people towards conversion, interpesonal
relations and healing.

Can't you say who is he ? I sent you a private message Beeline
__________________
For this was I born, and for this came I into the world; that I should give testimony to the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice. (Jh:18:37)
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  #8  
Old 7th April 2008, 09:46 PM
Beeline
 
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I can not say.
He is very private, low key and always guards his privacy.
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  #9  
Old 7th April 2008, 11:18 PM
Beeline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agobard View Post
I'm also not an expert but it seems to me very strange. Can it be truly knowledge of God outside christianity??? By power, possibilities that comes from natural human mind, intelect, there is a way to discover that there is one God, a way to find, understand basis of God's nature. But union with "the Absolute", expirience of GODS LOVE is only in Jesus, by the grace, not nature. Jesus said I am the way, truth and life. This "union" whith God outside baptism sacrament can be just empty human feelings, nothing special.

Dont be a feenyite!

a basic explanation of the Vatican II illustration of
'No Salvation outside the Church'

In a nutshell:
the below basically says that God speaks to the hearts of those willing to listen, and that those people properly disposed are saved through Gods instrument the Catholic Church.

Grasping this truth is very enlightening.

http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/o...the_church.htm

Again, in his encyclical Quanto conficiamur moerore of 10 August, 1863 addressed to the Italian bishops, he said:

It is known to us and to you that those who are in invincible ignorance of our most holy religion, but who observe carefully the natural law, and the precepts graven by God upon the hearts of all men, and who being disposed to obey God lead an honest and upright life, may, aided by the light of divine grace, attain to eternal life; for God who sees clearly, searches and knows the heart, the disposition, the thoughts and intentions of each, in His supreme mercy and goodness by no means permits that anyone suffer eternal punishment, who has not of his own free will fallen into sin.

These statements are consistent with the understanding of the Church contained in the documents of Vatican II, and the Catechism of the Catholic Church, as well as explaining why the rigorist position of Fr. Feeney (that all must be actual members of the Catholic Church to be saved) has been condemned by the Magisterium. It is ironic that precisely those who know their obligation to remain united to the Magisterium, and thus on whom this doctrine is morally binding, keep themselves from union with the Roman See on this point.

Last edited by Beeline : 7th April 2008 at 11:22 PM.
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  #10  
Old 8th April 2008, 11:07 PM
Agobard
 
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Beeline, I agree with you, i am not a feenyite!

But the matter is mysticism not a possiblilty of beeing saved

I claim again: there is no true misticism in the other religions, only in christianity. The first source of all "mystical experiences" is holy mass. Look at all saints, catholic mystics. Eucharist is begining, center of all life in God. Without baptism, there is no grace at higher level. Mystical experiences are by grace, not nature. Grace comes from Jesus, Jesus is grace, Jesus who is one with Father, who is in Father, is the subject of all mistical experiences.
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