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  #1  
Old 7th April 2008, 11:54 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Default Islam and traditional Catholicism

this article:
http://www.newoxfordreview.org/note....notes-goodnews
has some good insights into why many Europeans are attracted to Islam.

Modern society has lost the true distinctions between men's and women's roles, pushes women away from the roles of motherhood and childraising, and discourages modesty. Islam offers the things that modern hedonistic society is taking away.

But the more traditional understanding of the Catholic Faith offers these things to a much higher degree of perfection.
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  #2  
Old 7th April 2008, 08:47 PM
Nathan
 
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Ron,

thanks so much for this. Islam indeed offers something the hedonistic, rationalistic west cannot... albeit only in externals. scratching under the surface a bit, Islamic puritanism is really another form of obsession: they can control external behaviour, but thoughts are still polluted... really, the Gulf is one of the most dangerous places in the world for a woman, whether western or Arab.

Christian morality is of another sort entirely, really: it's the morality of spiritual transformation, not physical constraint.

I know a white woman who converted to Islam drawn by these very things, but then one day she met a former Islamic scholar who had converted to Christianity. He convinced her to follow as well. They're now married, wonderful people, and attend a Coptic parish. She ultimately found her spiritual experience of Islam hollow, and finds whatever Islam had to offer present in a fullfilled way in Eastern Christianity.

I don't know much about the customs of Latin Traditionalists, but I do take exception to the author here comparing head coverings to the hijab and his claim that they, like hijab, are a matter of modesty. The scripture and the Fathers both indicate that head coverings in Christian worship are actually unrelated to modesty, but have spiritual, almost sacramental significance.

It is this very sort of argument about head coverings being matters of modesty that I often hear to precisely why women should *not* cover their heads in Christian worship. After all, if it is a matter of modesty, then women should wear them all the time, not just in worship. That inconsistency combined with the fact that hair is not perceived as sexual in the west as much as it is in muslim-majority countries where many of the women I know come from (when they come here, they feel a real freedom of not having to be assaulted or objectified if they don't pay scrupulous enough attention to their attire), has led many good Eastern Christian women to discard the venerable practice entirely.
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  #3  
Old 7th April 2008, 08:59 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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I don't think that headcoverings are based on modesty in Christianity. It's based on humility and is an outward sign of the different places given to men and women in the Church, the familiy, and society.

moderate Islam does have some good values and some positive religious elements. So I can see why Vatican II praised the limited good found in other non-christian religions. But of course they lack Tradition, Scripture, and Magisterium, so they can easily go astray from even their own ideals.
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  #4  
Old 7th April 2008, 09:20 PM
Nathan
 
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Ron,

I am relieved that you agree about head coverings not primarily being a modesty issue.

I like what you once said long ago that every time a Muslim makes a prostration he is actually passing on Holy Tradition in a sense.

Muhammed borrowed much from both Judaism and Christianity, including certain postures of prayer and even architecturally (the "Islamic" dome, for example, was designed to amplify the sound of the gospel being read from the ambo in a Christian church). Islam certainly retains traces of truth.

I've actually always had a special appreciation for certain Sufi saints... my wife, having grown up in Sufi India, holds that because I have no actual first-hand experience with Sufism my fascination is naive.
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  #5  
Old 8th April 2008, 05:01 PM
Climacus Areopagite Climacus Areopagite is offline
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I find some of those Sufi sects to be interesting. If they converted I think they would make wonderful Christians
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  #6  
Old 5th June 2008, 11:01 AM
VKallin VKallin is offline
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Default An interesting situation in France

A young French woman was recently married and then found to be non-virgin on her wedding night. The husband sued for an annulement and a judge granted it. This reflects a muslim value in a country which has a significant muslim population. Nonetheless, the entire country is up in arms over this ruling, and the government is launching an appeal.

Of course a virgin bride is in perfect compliance with God's law, but probably is rare. It is not for us to judge her. I think if her husband truly loved her, than this action would never have been taken. It may be a contest between true love and the muslim tradion of family honor. If there was no true love, than she is probably better off, and legally, she was never married. This is a very sensitive issue in France today. Follow the link to the story.

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news...rgin.Marriage/
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  #7  
Old 5th June 2008, 11:30 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Scripture has some interesting things to say on this subject:

[Deuteronomy]
{22:13} If a man takes a wife, and afterwards he has hatred for her,
{22:14} and so he seeks opportunities to dismiss her, imputing a very wicked name to her by saying, ‘I received this woman as a wife, and upon entering to her, I found her not to be a virgin,’
{22:15} then her father and mother shall take her, and they shall bring with them the signs of her virginity, to the elders of the city who are at the gate.
{22:16} And the father shall say: ‘I gave my daughter to this man as a wife. And because he hates her,
{22:17} he accuses her with a very wicked name, by saying: “I did not find your daughter to be a virgin.” But behold, these are the signs of my daughter’s virginity.’ And they shall spread the clothing before the elders of the city.
{22:18} And the elders of that city shall apprehend that man and beat him.
{22:19} Moreover, they shall fine him one hundred shekels of silver, which he will give to the father of the girl, because he has committed slander, with a very wicked name, against a virgin of Israel. And he shall have her as a wife, and he cannot dismiss her throughout all the days of his life.
{22:20} But if what he has claimed is true and virginity is not found in the girl,
{22:21} then they shall throw her down, outside the doors of her father’s house, and the men of that city shall stone her to death, and she shall die. For she has acted wickedly in Israel, in that she fornicated in her father’s house. And so shall you take away the evil from your midst.

[Ezekiel]
{44:21} And no priest shall drink wine, when he will be entering into the inner court.
{44:22} And they shall not take as wife a widow or one who has been divorced. Instead, they shall take virgins from the offspring of the house of Israel. But they may also take a widow, if she is the widow of a priest.

[Revelation]
{14:4} These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are Virgins. These follow the Lamb wherever he will go. These were redeemed from men as the first-fruits for God and for the Lamb.
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  #8  
Old 15th August 2008, 01:00 PM
Pontifex Pontifex is offline
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Default Son of Hamas leader describes conversion to Christianity

Here is an interesting article on the conversion of the son of a Hamas leader to Christianity. He also believes that conversion to Christianity is the only way to have a chance for peace in the Holy Land

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=13521
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  #9  
Old 26th March 2009, 01:28 PM
ExCelciuS ExCelciuS is offline
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Ron is Allah which stated in Islam is the same with God The Father?
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  #10  
Old 26th March 2009, 01:54 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExCelciuS View Post
Ron is Allah which stated in Islam is the same with God The Father?

The Muslims know the one true God, but imperfectly.
They do not understand or believe in the Trinity.
So they know God as the one God.
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