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  #1  
Old 24th October 2008, 08:41 PM
Climacus Areopagite Climacus Areopagite is offline
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Default Liturgical Music

Is anyone up for a discussion/debate about liturgical music?
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Old 25th October 2008, 07:14 AM
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Sacredcello Sacredcello is offline
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I don't have much time now that I am the librarian for the symphony... but, here is a starter topic.

What do you think of modulations before the third verse of a processional hymn with fancy reharmonizations played on the organ? It seems to be more of a high Anglican tradition, but you occasionally hear it in Catholic cathedrals and places where the organist has the chops for it.

I like it, it's the one thing I miss about the Episcopal church. We're going to have the third verse of the Slane melody reharmonized for the processional hymn at our wedding. There's nothing like a powerful organ solo to blow the doors off the church at the just the right moment.
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Old 25th October 2008, 10:26 AM
VKallin VKallin is offline
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Default Two Flavors

When our choir performs well during Mass, it seems to produce one of two different results. If the music is unfamiliar, but performed well, than the result is a silent appreciation for the talent of the performers and a beautiful result. If the music is familiar and performed well, we typically see everyone present join in singing with enthusiastic participation. Of course, the vast majority are not good singers, but the rafters ring with a joyful celebration of the Holy Mass. I personally enjoy both results. I have a pretty good ear for music, and I easily recognize the talent and preparation displayed by the musicians. But I recall during the Last Supper, Jesus lead the disciples in a Hymn before his Agony in the Garden. I think the idea of bringing all of the faithful into the experience is the better objective.
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Old 25th October 2008, 01:54 PM
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I don't know anything about modulations or reharmoniztions, but I agree that there's nothing like a powerful organ solo. I love the organ .

I am one of those typical not good singers, but I am excited that in November I am taking a class to learn Gregorian chant.

Darrell
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Old 25th October 2008, 07:42 PM
Climacus Areopagite Climacus Areopagite is offline
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Yeah I was thinking about discussing the guiding principles of Liturgical Music. Which music should or should not be used or should it be used at all? And why? Which instruments should or should not be used and why? What developments could be made for the future. Stuff like that.
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Old 20th April 2015, 11:06 PM
OregonCatholic OregonCatholic is offline
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I was reviewing old threads and came across this one on liturgical music. This has been a sore spot with me for some time now in my church and unfortunately I let myself get in a bad mood as the recessional hymn played this past Sunday. I felt as though I was in an Ďole fashioned Southern Baptist revival and I was half expecting someone like Benny Hinn or Creflo Dollar to come rushing out of the sacristy. The ďbandĒ as I call them, because they arenít a choir in my opinion, also consistently plays contemporary Christian music from artists such as Mercy Me, Chris Tomlin, etc. throughout the Mass. I no longer attend bi-lingual services because the beat is too similar to mariachi music. I feel like I should be holding maracas instead of a missal (I admit this may be a cultural difference that Iím not used to).

I realize Iím more traditional and conservative in my tastes and as much as I love Gregorian Chant Iíve come to accept few churches in my area have choirs capable of singing this type of music. However, when the priest sings parts of the Mass in a chant style only to be followed up by contemporary or other different beats by the choir, it becomes very distracting and doesnít lend itself to the liturgy at all. Itís almost as if the Mass has become entertainment rather than the sacrifice it is. Some of these songs prompt parishioners to clap along which is appalling to me.

Iím torn between discussing my concerns with the priest or just start attending a different church. Iím not sure if the GIRM stipulates any rules on liturgical music or maybe Iím just way off base and contemporary music is fine at Mass. It just doesnít feel very reverent to me. Anyone else have an opinion or would like to share how their music ministries perform?
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Old 21st April 2015, 02:05 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OregonCatholic View Post
Iím torn between discussing my concerns with the priest or just start attending a different church. Iím not sure if the GIRM stipulates any rules on liturgical music or maybe Iím just way off base and contemporary music is fine at Mass. It just doesnít feel very reverent to me. Anyone else have an opinion or would like to share how their music ministries perform?

The Mass is about worshiping God, learning the faith from the Scriptures, and receiving Christ in the Eucharist. It does not matter if the music matches your preferences or not. Is it really such difficult a cross to bear to listen to music that is contrary to what you think would be best?

You should not leave your parish church over concerns about the music. And I wouldn't suggest mentioning it to the pastor either. What is he supposed to do? Impose your preferences, assuming he even agrees, on the rest of the parish? If you yourself were the pastor, and your flock preferred contemporary music, would you really impose traditional music on them?

I used to live in a town with a very conservative parish, run by monks who wore a brown robe with a hood as a habit, and a literal rope for a belt. Now I live in a town with a rather liberal parish. And I have been spiritually very happy at both locations. The music and the differences in liturgical form do not matter.

In some parts of the world today, Christians are dying for Christ. And in other parts of the world, we argue over little points of liturgical form and over which music would be best. What would Jesus himself say?
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  #8  
Old 21st April 2015, 03:00 AM
tapinu33 tapinu33 is offline
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I used to attend my local Parish when I moved here to WA which seemed to be everything OregonCatholic stated. I was distressed by the happy clappy music and the fact that the Tabernacle was practically in the parking lot! I went on a mission to find a Church that basically felt Holy. I now attend a Church run by the Dominicans. It is 24 miles away. People behave different at my Church. It is silent when you walk in for Mass as people are praying. People on the whole dress more modestly. The choir sound like angels as they chant parts of the Mass. Confession lines are long. Beautiful things are happening. I discovered in all of this that I without realizing was seeking a more contemplative prayer life and I needed that peace and traditional style to help me put myself in the Presence of God. When you are not used to the happy clappy or mariachi style then I feel it is right to seek out what brings you closer to God and likewise vice versa. Only when you are at peace can you open up to let God in. I say go and see other Parishes it is not harmful to do that IMHO.
Also I would like to add to this that my children attend a Catholic school 22 miles in the opposite direction and this is a bi lingual Church. I attend adoration 2 times a week here and the Priest gives beautiful homilies at daily Mass. Yet I know that I feel more comfortable in a traditional environment.
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  #9  
Old 21st April 2015, 12:39 PM
St. Thomas More St. Thomas More is offline
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Default Gregorian Chant

To what extent is the more modern music consistent with Vatican II, (much less the tradition of music prior to Vatican II)? In Sacrosanctum Concilium, the Second Vatican Council wrote:

116. The Church acknowledges Gregorian chant as specially suited to the Roman liturgy: therefore, other things being equal, it should be given pride of place in liturgical services.

But other kinds of sacred music, especially polyphony, are by no means excluded from liturgical celebrations, so long as they accord with the spirit of the liturgical action, as laid down in Art. 30.

117. The typical edition of the books of Gregorian chant is to be completed; and a more critical edition is to be prepared of those books already published since the restoration by St. Pius X.

It is desirable also that an edition be prepared containing simpler melodies, for use in small churches.


Gregorian chant is not given pride of place in most parishes in the USA.

A perceived danger is Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi. As we water down the music to simple melodies, are we watering down, and impairing, the experience and, in the long run, the faith? If you are a mature practicing Catholic, you can tune this out (no pun intended). But if a person is a casual Catholic and the Mass feels like a social gathering, with common music, does that pose a long term risk to the faith?
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  #10  
Old 21st April 2015, 03:18 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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The disciplines of the Old Testament were established by Divine Revelation. And yet Jesus dispensed all the OT disciplines. A change in discipline, or the permitting of a diversity of disciplines, such as diversity in liturgical form (which includes the type of music used), does not imply change or harm to doctrine.

The law of worship (Lex Orandi) refers to true worship of God, not to the details of liturgical form and discipline. We must express our true beliefs with sincere worship of God -- not only at Mass, but also by deeds of mercy and a life of prayer. It is an error to equate Lex Orandi with personal preferences for liturgical form.

The Gregorian chant is not required at all Masses, nor is it in any way essential to Catholic worship or teaching. It is suitable and fitting, but not required. And the same is true for the Latin form of the Mass and many other aspects of liturgical form.

Christ did not establish the Mass in immutable specifics. And the Church has the authority to permit a diversity of liturgical forms.
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