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  #11  
Old 16th March 2009, 11:10 AM
Paul Bellett Paul Bellett is offline
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Thanks Shane, I think most of us on this forum have probably learnt the lesson of the 10 bridesmaids by now -Matthew 25:1-13
- It certainly pays to be prepared, to reap the reward so to speak.
  #12  
Old 26th March 2009, 08:36 PM
Shane Shane is offline
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Ron,

I was looking around online at some material on Garabandal and I came across this quote from Conchita which relates to the lack of trust people will put in the apparitions before the Miracle. The quote alleges that a singular event, as opposed to the Miracle being delayed beyond the year, is the reason why faith in Garabandal is weakened before the Miracle.

Quote:
On December 6, 1962, she had a 90 minute ecstasy around 5:30 in the afternoon after which, she provided two more pieces of information regarding the Miracle: 1) One day, a little before the Miracle, something will happen that will cause many people to stop believing in the apparitions of Garabandal. The doubts and desertions will not be due to an excessive delay of the Miracle. 2) On the day of the Miracle, the note that she signed in Santander (stating that the apparitions were not authentic) will disappear.

(source: http://www.ourlady.ca/info/greatMiracle.htm)

Just wondering, have you come across this before?


Shane
  #13  
Old 26th March 2009, 10:15 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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I haven't read that before.
I think that the most likely event to cause people to disbelieve in the apparitions at Garabandal woud be a decision of the local Bishop, or more likely the Bishops' Conference of Spain, to disapprove of the apparitions there.

After the Warning, there will continue the struggle between good and evil that has been in the world since the Fall of Adam and Eve. And this will continue to occur even within the Church. Many Catholics will be dismayed and fearful over the Warning, and will seek some way to disregard the event. Just as the unbelievers will seek excuses to dismiss the event, so also will many in the Church seek the same. There will be much pressure on the Bishops of Spain to reject Garabandal, and many accusations will be made against the visionaries. I expect that this will succeed, especially when the Miracle does not occur within 12 calendar months, resulting in a decision of the temporal authority against the apparitions at Garabandal, even after the Warning.

I'm sure that note Conchita signed will also be used against Garabandal, (which is why it disappears at the Miracle).

Did I not teach you all that the temporal authority is fallible, and that you should not blindly obey the temporal authority of the Church? Otherwise, you would be guilty of Pharisee-ism, and you will also end up going astray from the will and plan of God. And this is another example of this principle. If the Bishops of Spain disapprove of Garabandal, and even speak strongly against it, or if even the CDF does so, the decision is fallible, and is subject to the sensus fidelium (the mind of the faithful). The faithful can sometimes disregard or disobey a decision of the temporal authority, since it is fallible. Otherwise, they would be guilty of idolatry, for treating the temporal authority as if it were God.
  #14  
Old 30th March 2009, 05:39 AM
madison888 madison888 is offline
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Ron, I recently found this online:

Conchita says that the Miracle will coincide with some official church action that has happened in the church only rarely but has not happened during Conchita's lifetime. Ron Conte thinks it will be the canonization to sainthood of Pope John Paul II on May 13, 2010. However, since Conchita was born in 1949 and Pope St. Pius X was canonized in 1954, this cannot be the rare church action that will happen at the time of the miracle. Therefore, Ron Conte must have the wrong date for the Miracle of Garabandal.

Have you said the rare event will be the canonization of JPII? If so, is the above writer correct about the canonization of Pius X being in Conchita's lifetime?

Or is the rare event something other than canonization of pope?
  #15  
Old 30th March 2009, 06:08 AM
gateKeeper gateKeeper is offline
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well, what we have to ask ourselves is if Conchita was old enough to know this information when she made that statement. If she was a teenager, I don't think she would have known of this canonization.
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  #16  
Old 30th March 2009, 10:59 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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It may be that Conchita did not realize that a Pope had been canonized in her lifetime, since she was about 5 at the time; having said something incorrect about the secrets, she would then be unable to correct her mistake without giving away too much information about the secrets.

Or it may be that the event is the canonization of two or three Popes on the same day:

Pope John Paul II
Pope Pius XII
perhaps also Pope Paul VI
  #17  
Old 30th March 2009, 12:18 PM
Jeanne D'Arc
 
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And maybe John XXIII?
Joan
  #18  
Old 31st March 2009, 04:04 AM
madison888 madison888 is offline
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Default Date of the Miracle/special event

SInce Conchita implied the event had happened before ("only rarely"), has there ever been a date in the past that multiple popes were canonized?
  #19  
Old 31st March 2009, 12:28 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Pope John XXIII is already a Blessed, so perhaps he will be canonized at that time also. I'm not sure if Paul VI will be canonized at that time.

I don't know if there have been multiple Popes canonized on the same day. Perhaps some of the members or readers of this forum could research that point. Thanks.
  #20  
Old 31st March 2009, 04:22 PM
TheGiftOfLife
 
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I did extensive research, typed up for about an hr and then my computer froze and I lost all my data so here is the quick version of what I came up with.

76 Popes are saints

~50 lived from 30-500
~20 lived from 500-900
Then there are ~6 of them that were canonized after ~1200 by different Popes in different years and dates over a 800 year period.

There is hardly any info on dates on canonizations of the other 70.

Since there are many that are saints who lived in a short period of time as well as the short amount of time there was to canononize; I think its safe to assume that more than one were proclamed saints on the same day.

I typed this from memory, thats why I give approx dates.etc.

John
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