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  #1  
Old 10th April 2009, 11:18 PM
sammy sammy is offline
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Default Scripture as the final authority.

For churches that claim the Bible as the final and only authority, show them 1 Timothy 15- But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.
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  #2  
Old 11th April 2009, 12:40 PM
Max Kolbe Max Kolbe is offline
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Sammy is someone debating with you? If so these are a few good ones from Matthew. If you want more let me know. I love to share and defend the faith!

Matt. Chap. 16 verses

15: He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
16: Simon Peter replied, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
17: And Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.
18: And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.
19: I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Matt. Chap. 18 verses,

15: "If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother.
16: But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses.
17: If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.
18: Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Then we follow it up with 1st Tim. 3:15. God bless!
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  #3  
Old 11th April 2009, 01:10 PM
sammy sammy is offline
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Thanks Max. No, I just came across these a while back and they stuck with me and I felt like sharing. Thanks. Sammy.
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  #4  
Old 3rd June 2009, 06:55 AM
Justin Angel Justin Angel is offline
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Kolbe View Post
Sammy is someone debating with you? If so these are a few good ones from Matthew. If you want more let me know. I love to share and defend the faith!

Matt. Chap. 16 verses

15: He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
16: Simon Peter replied, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
17: And Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.
18: And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.
19: I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Matt. Chap. 18 verses,

15: "If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother.
16: But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses.
17: If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.
18: Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Then we follow it up with 1st Tim. 3:15. God bless!

Indeed, the keys of the kingdom of heaven and the power to bind and loose weren't conferred on a book. Nor did Jesus commission his apostles to write the New Testament. He appointed them to "preach" the Gospel to the ends of the earth, promising that he would send them the Paraclete to help guide the Church to all truth. It's because Protestantism rejects the idea of a central apostolic teaching authority that it's divided in essential matters of faith and morals. The Bible alone hasn't served this religious movement very well as the appointed final arbiter of truth. In reality Protestants confuse the authority of Scripture with their own inharmonious private interpretations. Martin Luther laid the foundation of a growing pyramid.

"He who is not with me is against me; and he who does not gather with me scatters."
Matthew 12, 30

Pax Christu
J.A.
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  #5  
Old 26th February 2010, 01:41 AM
Thurifer
 
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Default the sequence

Jesus'teaching
Creation of the Church,it's hierarchy and the giving of the keys and the command to feed His sheep.
His literal gift of Himself as the pascal lamb at the Last Supper and at every subsequent mass.
300+years of Tradition only
Assembly and infallible designation of the Canon of Scripture,by the Divine Body of Christ in this world.
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  #6  
Old 26th February 2010, 08:45 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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The first 300 years of the Church did have an emphasis on Tradition, since the Canon was not yet defined, and there were few magisterial documents. But the faithful still had the OT, and they had the books of the NT, even though they were not yet entirely certain which were inspired. They also had the Living Magisterium, since the Popes and the Bishops of every generation have taught the faithful.

The understanding of the Church about the Canon increased gradually, culminating in a definition of the books of the Canon at the Council of Florence, and later at the Council of Trent.

Florence:
It professes that one and the same God is the author of the old and the new Testament -- that is, the law and the prophets, and the gospel -- since the saints of both testaments spoke under the inspiration of the same Spirit. It accepts and venerates their books, whose titles are as follows.

Five books of Moses, namely Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy; Joshua, Judges, Ruth, four books of Kings, two of Paralipomenon, Esdras, Nehemiah, Tobit, Judith, Esther, Job, Psalms of David, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Baruch, Ezechiel, Daniel; the twelve minor prophets, namely Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi; two books of the Maccabees; the four gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John; fourteen letters of Paul, to the Romans, two to the Corinthians, to the Galatians, to the Ephesians, to the Philippians, two to the Thessalonians, to the Colossians, two to Timothy, to Titus, to Philemon, to the Hebrews; two letters of Peter, three of John, one of James, one of Jude; Acts of the Apostles; Apocalypse of John.

Trent:
(the Synod) following the examples of the orthodox Fathers, receives and venerates with an equal affection of piety, and reverence, all the books both of the Old and of the New Testament--seeing that one God is the author of both --as also the said traditions, as well those appertaining to faith as to morals, as having been dictated, either by Christ's own word of mouth, or by the Holy Ghost, and preserved in the Catholic Church by a continuous succession. And it has thought it meet that a list of the sacred books be inserted in this decree, lest a doubt may arise in any one's mind, which are the books that are received by this Synod. They are as set down here below:

of the Old Testament: the five books of Moses, to wit, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy; Josue, Judges, Ruth, four books of Kings, two of Paralipomenon, the first book of Esdras, and the second which is entitled Nehemias; Tobias, Judith, Esther, Job, the Davidical Psalter, consisting of a hundred and fifty psalms; the Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, the Canticle of Canticles, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, Isaias, Jeremias, with Baruch; Ezechiel, Daniel; the twelve minor prophets, to wit, Osee, Joel, Amos, Abdias, Jonas, Micheas, Nahum, Habacuc, Sophonias, Aggaeus, Zacharias, Malachias; two books of the Machabees, the first and the second. Of the New Testament: the four Gospels, according [Page 19] to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John; the Acts of the Apostles written by Luke the Evangelist; fourteen epistles of Paul the apostle, (one) to the Romans, two to the Corinthians, (one) to the Galatians, to the Ephesians, to the Philippians, to the Colossians, two to the Thessalonians, two to Timothy, (one) to Titus, to Philemon, to the Hebrews; two of Peter the apostle, three of John the apostle, one of the apostle James, one of Jude the apostle, and the Apocalypse of John the apostle. But if any one receive not, as sacred and canonical, the said books entire with all their parts, as they have been used to be read in the Catholic Church, and as they are contained in the old Latin vulgate edition; and knowingly and deliberately contemn the traditions aforesaid; let him be anathema.
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