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  #1  
Old 27th January 2010, 12:26 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Default JP2 mortifications

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100126/...n_john_paul_ii

Pope John Paul II practiced forms of mortification, such as sleeping on the floor, and using a belt to cause himself some discomfort. This practice of mortification has been found among some of the Saints since the early days of the Church; moderation is necessary, since suffering is not an end, but only a means.

[Jonah]
{3:5} And the men of Nineveh believed in God. And they proclaimed a fast, and they put on sackcloth, from the greatest all the way to the least.
{3:6} And word reached the king of Nineveh. And he rose from his throne, and he threw off his robe from himself and was clothed in sackcloth, and he sat in ashes.

[Esther 8]
{8:1} Queen Esther also, fearing the danger that was imminent, fled to the Lord.
{8:2} And when she had put aside her royal apparel, she took up garments suitable for weeping and mourning, and instead of various ointments, she covered her head with ashes from burnt dung, and she humbled her body with fasting, and all the aspects of her beauty, she covered with her torn hair.

[Psalm 29] (30)
{29:11} The Lord has heard, and he has been merciful to me. The Lord has become my helper.
{29:12} You have turned my mourning into gladness for me. You have cut off my sackcloth, and you have surrounded me with joy.
{29:13} So then, may my glory sing to you, and may I not regret it. O Lord, my God, I will confess to you for eternity.
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  #2  
Old 27th January 2010, 04:37 PM
daytonafreak daytonafreak is offline
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Wow, that is inspiring!
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  #3  
Old 27th January 2010, 05:14 PM
Brother Brother is offline
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Sleeping on the floor once in a while on purpose is not a bad idea.
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  #4  
Old 27th January 2010, 11:27 PM
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I have just finished a detalied book on Fatima and the lives of Jacinta and Francisco.

They used to tie ropes around themselves like belts to cause pain.

The Virgin in one of the apparitions told them to NOT wear then to bed but only during the day.

The continued this on their death beds where they gave Lucia the ropes and she burned them.

It seems they still wore them to bed dispite the Virgin telling them not to.

This is what is written.

Since JPII was devoted to Fatima, maybe this is why he chose that perticular mortification.

Personally I do not understand self inflicted pain. I thought that was one of the morals of St. Bernadette. You accept pain and suffering and offer it up for love of Christ. Not create the pain.
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Old 28th January 2010, 12:23 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGiftOfLife View Post
Personally I do not understand self inflicted pain. I thought that was one of the morals of St. Bernadette. You accept pain and suffering and offer it up for love of Christ. Not create the pain.

Fasting is a type of self-inflicted 'pain'. This type of practice of mortifying the body is not recommended for the faithful in general, but there is a continuous Tradition in the Church from the earliest days. Many of the Saints speak about this practice, in various forms. St. Ignatius used to kneel in prayer for up to 7 hours a day, on a hard floor. The discalced religious go barefoot even in winter. Hermits lived in caves, obviously taking upon themselves many hardships.

Yes, we must sometimes choose crosses for ourselves, in addition to those offered by Providence.
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Old 28th January 2010, 01:48 AM
sammy sammy is offline
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Some are called to self inflicted pain as a form of penance to various degrees. For the most part it should be private. No one should know and no one needs to know. Sometimes the most precious things are between God and you.
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Old 28th January 2010, 02:43 AM
TheGiftOfLife
 
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I see it a bit differently.

To me fasting is self denial and a way to purify the mind and body.
To me a devout person kneeling is as if they were in the true presence of God, no matter how long they kneel. Sometimes I am in pain just kneeling at church but I keep doing it. Not for the pain. Just as duing apparitions, people kneel. They do that naturally out of reverece and respect, not to inflict pain upon themselves.

Back to fasting or self denial in general. I use these to bring myself back to reality and not to be wrapped up with material things of this world. Fasting and self denial deals with negative issues such as selfishness or gluttony.

I still personally take issue with people that might take a razor blade and cut themselves, even in pivate. I do not think God wants us to do things like that.

Last edited by TheGiftOfLife : 28th January 2010 at 02:46 AM.
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Old 28th January 2010, 04:22 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGiftOfLife View Post
I still personally take issue with people that might take a razor blade and cut themselves, even in private. I do not think God wants us to do things like that.

The Christian practice of mortifications does not include cutting one's self, nor any other self-harming acts. These mortifications are usually limited to various types of discomforts.

Here's another article about Pope John Paul II and mortifications
Quote:
"In reality, they cause a fairly low level of discomfort comparable to fasting," Father Mike Barrett, an Opus Dei priest, said .... "There is no blood, no injury, nothing to harm a person's health, nothing traumatic."
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Old 28th January 2010, 02:05 PM
js1975 js1975 is offline
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St. John of the Cross was extreme when it came to these types of mortifications. He wore a chain for a belt under his clothing. When he died, it was reported that his skin grew around the links from such an extended period of time.

Taking St. John of the Cross' life example, sometimes he did not choose his mortification, other times he did. When he was in prison, sleeping on a dirt floor for months, he had some of his closest encounters with Christ.

My thought is that if we prudently choose our mortifications only as a means, we are giving forth a full effort in order to become closer to God and purify our spirit. Going to extremes, at least in my own life, has always led to me becoming incapable of performing other required duties, which I am sure is not good.

-jay
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2cor 7:1 Therefore, having these promises, most beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all defilement of the flesh and of the spirit, perfecting sanctification in the fear of God.
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  #10  
Old 28th January 2010, 02:25 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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The virtues of prudence and temperance must be exercised when performing any act of self-denial for the purpose of advancing in holiness. Also, suffering is never an end; it is only a means.
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