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  #1  
Old 3rd May 2010, 04:59 PM
ljsedivy ljsedivy is offline
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Default Sunday vs Saturday

Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but I'm wondering when the Church started worshipping Sunday vs Saturday. I think I read that was under the rule of Constantine. I'm having dialogue with a friend that says Sunday is wrong and that we are to be keeping holy the Sabbath as Christians not Sunday.

Any history lessons for me? What did the apostles do?

Thank you, Ron!

In joy,

Laura J
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  #2  
Old 3rd May 2010, 05:14 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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The earliest Christians were mostly Jews who converted. They continued to go worship God in the temple, and to celebrate the early form of the Mass in homes of various Christians.

The Gospels do have language referring to the day that Jesus rose from the dead, Sunday, as the 'first Sabbath', i.e. the first Christian Sabbath. The Resurrection was often the focus of the preaching of early Christians, so it is unthinkable that they did not celebrate that day.

The claim that Christians only started celebrating the day of the Resurrection hundreds of years later is patently false. This is similar to many other claims, such as that priestly celibacy was a late development, or that a male only clergy was a late development, or that the papacy and Magisterium was a late development, etc. It is a common false claim (lateness) used to attack one teaching of the Church or another.
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  #3  
Old 4th May 2010, 01:21 AM
ljsedivy ljsedivy is offline
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Thanks, Ron. That is very helpful. I just wish I had some scripture to back it up specifically.

Why is it that you can't prove anything to a protestant without Scripture, but they can throw all this stuff at you without scripture and claim it to be gospel truth? I'm scratching my head.

In joy,

Laura J
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  #4  
Old 4th May 2010, 11:37 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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[Matthew 28]
{28:1} Vespere autem Sabbati, quæ lucescit in prima Sabbati, venit Maria Magdalene, et altera Maria videre sepulchrum.
{28:1} Now on the morning of the Sabbath, when it began to grow light on the first Sabbath, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to see the sepulcher.

Notice that Matthew, after the Crucifixion, begins to count Sunday, the day of the Resurrection, as the Sabbath. Whereas, elsewhere in his Gospel, he counts Saturday as the Sabbath. He also states that this day is the first (Christian) Sabbath.

[Mark 16]
{16:1} Et cum transisset Sabbatum, Maria Magdalene, et Maria Iacobi, et Salome emerunt aromata ut venientes ungerent Iesum.
{16:1} And when the [Jewish] Sabbath had passed, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought aromatic spices, so that when they arrived they could anoint Jesus.

{16:2} Et valde mane una Sabbatorum, veniunt ad monumentum, orto iam sole.
{16:2} And very early in the morning, on the first of the [Christian] Sabbaths, they went to the tomb, the sun having now risen.

Both Matthew and Mark make a point of calling this Sunday, the first Sabbath, not the first day of the week. This was the first Sabbath of the Christian Faith. All prior Sabbaths, including the previous day, a Saturday, were the Jewish Sabbaths.

[Luke 24]
{24:1} Una autem Sabbati valde diluculo venerunt ad monumentum, portantes quæ paraverant, aromata:
{24:1} Then, on the first Sabbath, at very first light, they went to the tomb, carrying the aromatic spices that they had prepared.


[John 20]
{20:1} Una autem Sabbati, Maria Magdalene venit mane, cum adhuc tenebræ essent, ad monumentum: et vidit lapidem sublatum a monumento.
{20:1} Then on the first Sabbath, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and she saw that the stone had been rolled away from the tomb.

As with the other Gospels, John points out that this Sunday was the first Christian Sabbath. The phrase ‘una sabbati’ does not mean the first day of the week, but the first Sabbath.
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  #5  
Old 4th May 2010, 11:38 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljsedivy View Post
Why is it that you can't prove anything to a protestant without Scripture, but they can throw all this stuff at you without scripture and claim it to be gospel truth? I'm scratching my head.

I don't think we can prove anything to a Protestant even with Scripture. They will always claim that whatever Catholic interpretation is given is false. They say that they are interpreting Scripture, but really they are following the ideas in their denomination.
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  #6  
Old 4th May 2010, 11:56 AM
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When I was in grammar school about a hundred years ago, our beloved nuns would not allow us to read the Bible on our own. They said we would not understand and would misinterpret it. We never questioned them (or anything for that matter) and to some small degree, they were quite correct. I heard someone say recently that no wonder they didn't want us to read the Bible we would have found out that Jesus had real brothers and sisters. Lord save us from the half-informed!!!
This is also something to be careful about with the Jehovah's Witnesses. They are masters at "scripture-twisting".
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Old 4th May 2010, 11:58 AM
ljsedivy ljsedivy is offline
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Wow, Ron! You are the cat's meow! Thank you so much. I can't tell you how much this helps.

Here's something I've noticed, too:

I'm in LFI and I feel so stupid in that class because there are so many converts that know scripture so well and I'm just learning now. Anyway, whenever someone asks a teaching Priest why protestants do this or don't do that or if something is clearly stated in the Bible, how is that protestants don't see it or follow it (or whatever, you get the point).

The priest just says, "I don't know; I don't know."

On the other hand, when you ask a protestant pastor something about the Catholic faith, they seem to know everything that the church teaches and how it is that they teach it wrong. They seem to think they know everything Catholic and will tell you so.

So I ask, "Where's the humility?"
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Old 4th May 2010, 01:25 PM
Brother Brother is offline
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...and God 'rested' on the seventh day. We still keep holy the seventh day. Sunday is our seventh day.

[Matthew 5]
{5:17} Do not think that I have come to loosen the law or the prophets. I have not come to loosen, but to fulfill.
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  #9  
Old 4th May 2010, 06:13 PM
ExCelciuS ExCelciuS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljsedivy View Post
Wow, Ron! You are the cat's meow! Thank you so much. I can't tell you how much this helps.

Here's something I've noticed, too:

I'm in LFI and I feel so stupid in that class because there are so many converts that know scripture so well and I'm just learning now. Anyway, whenever someone asks a teaching Priest why protestants do this or don't do that or if something is clearly stated in the Bible, how is that protestants don't see it or follow it (or whatever, you get the point).

The priest just says, "I don't know; I don't know."

On the other hand, when you ask a protestant pastor something about the Catholic faith, they seem to know everything that the church teaches and how it is that they teach it wrong. They seem to think they know everything Catholic and will tell you so.

So I ask, "Where's the humility?"

So I think that is like Paul's behaviour before convert...
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Old 14th October 2010, 07:07 AM
myLivingBread myLivingBread is offline
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Ron,

I don't understand this feast of unleavened bread, how many time do they celebrate it?

Leviticus 23:6 says : “And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread...”

However, Matthew 26:17 says: “Now on the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?”
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