CatholicPlanet.Net discussion group  

Go Back   CatholicPlanet.Net discussion group > Catholicism > News and Politics
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 2nd September 2010, 12:05 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,764
Default Is divorce coming to Malta?

A bill has been introduced in the legislature in Malta, to make divorce available to all married couples.
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles...vorce-crusades

The Bishops of Malta asked the faithful there to stand up for the indissolubility of marriage, but also not to embark on a crusade. "However, they warned followers against staging a “crusade” by whatever means, since it implied seeking a victory over people with different beliefs and opinions."

This is an example of seeking a good end, with a good means, and not by any means at all.
__________________
Ron Conte
Roman Catholic theologian
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 4th September 2010, 02:31 PM
imperial imperial is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Melb Australia
Posts: 100
Default

Two years ago I had some relatives come over from Malta, one of them is separated from her husband, I asked her if she was going through a divorce , she said to me that separation is the same as divorce, you legally separate [with lawyers going through the courts e.t.c]. Then you can remarry, but not in the church unless one is granted an annulment through the church.
Indeed it already does sound like divorce has existed in Malta for a long time they simply renamed it to separation.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 4th September 2010, 04:29 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,764
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by imperial View Post
Two years ago I had some relatives come over from Malta, one of them is separated from her husband, I asked her if she was going through a divorce , she said to me that separation is the same as divorce, you legally separate [with lawyers going through the courts e.t.c]. Then you can remarry, but not in the church unless one is granted an annulment through the church.
Indeed it already does sound like divorce has existed in Malta for a long time they simply renamed it to separation.

This is much like the approach of allowing same-sex civil unions, and giving them an equivalent status to marriage.
__________________
Ron Conte
Roman Catholic theologian
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 5th September 2010, 01:32 AM
imperial imperial is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Melb Australia
Posts: 100
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Conte View Post
This is much like the approach of allowing same-sex civil unions, and giving them an equivalent status to marriage.
As always Ron, Spot on
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 25th September 2010, 10:37 AM
Truthseeker Truthseeker is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 273
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by imperial View Post
Two years ago I had some relatives come over from Malta, one of them is separated from her husband, I asked her if she was going through a divorce , she said to me that separation is the same as divorce, you legally separate [with lawyers going through the courts e.t.c]. Then you can remarry, but not in the church unless one is granted an annulment through the church.
Indeed it already does sound like divorce has existed in Malta for a long time they simply renamed it to separation.

I think that you have the wrong information. Till now in Malta you can have a separation of goods [assets] and custody of children. However, you cannot remarry not even civilly unless you obtain an annulment. However the annulment process in my opinion is being abused in that most of the time couples are not being honest and give wrong testimonies in order that their marriage be annuled.

However, if one marries a foreign partner a divorce obtained from the country of the foreign partner is approved by the maltese courts and one can remarry freely.

There is now also a discussion to legalise rights of cohabiting couples and the introduction of divorce. 46% of those interviewed are against divorce 40% are in favour and the rest are undecided.

The prime minister is against divorce, the leader of the opposition is in favour. It seems this issue will become a political card for the two major parties to use in the next general election. I think the decision will be more a political one rather than a spiritual one!
__________________
For this was I born, and for this came I into the world; that I should give testimony to the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice. (Jh:18:37)

Last edited by Truthseeker : 25th September 2010 at 11:20 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 13th October 2010, 12:49 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,764
Default

I have now posted an article
Civil Divorce and Cooperation with Evil
http://www.catechism.cc/articles/div...ooperation.htm
which is an excerpt from my book, The Catechism of Catholic Ethics
__________________
Ron Conte
Roman Catholic theologian
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 14th October 2010, 12:11 PM
Truthseeker Truthseeker is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 273
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Conte View Post
I have now posted an article
Civil Divorce and Cooperation with Evil
http://www.catechism.cc/articles/div...ooperation.htm
which is an excerpt from my book, The Catechism of Catholic Ethics

Thanks for the article Ron. However, one thing I canoot understand. How can it be that voting in favour of divorce is not an intrinsically evil act regardless of intention or circumstances. To lie is intrinsically evil even if one has a good intention. However, accepting divorce for a good reason is much worse than lying for a good reason ! One might argue that Jesus accepted some exceptions for divorce, however in Malta these exceptions (like beating your partner) are catered for by annulment and separation. So voting for divorce bill in Malta is in my opinion in every circumstance an intrinsically evil act. NO TO DIVORCE IN MALTA.
__________________
For this was I born, and for this came I into the world; that I should give testimony to the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice. (Jh:18:37)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 14th October 2010, 12:24 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,764
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthseeker View Post
Thanks for the article Ron. However, one thing I canoot understand. How can it be that voting in favour of divorce is not an intrinsically evil act regardless of intention or circumstances. To lie is intrinsically evil even if one has a good intention. However, accepting divorce for a good reason is much worse than lying for a good reason ! One might argue that Jesus accepted some exceptions for divorce, however in Malta these exceptions (like beating your partner) are catered for by annulment and separation. So voting for divorce bill in Malta is in my opinion in every circumstance an intrinsically evil act. NO TO DIVORCE IN MALTA.
Your explanation is based on the circumstances, so you are judging divorce to be immoral based on the third font, not the second font (moral object). An act that is immoral because of circumstances is not, for that reason, intrinsically evil. The Church does not teach that divorce is intrinsically evil. The OT permitted divorce, and God would never permit what is intrinsically evil.

A Catholic in Malta may judge that the circumstances in his nation are such that civil divorce is not needed to address the situations where the Church permits civil divorce. And therefore, he may vote against divorce. Or he might judge that the present laws do not sufficiently provide for civil divorce in so far as the Church permits it, and he may vote for the law. So there is a judgment of the prudential order that is needed to decide about this particular law.

The Church permits civil divorce, not only in cases of annulments, but also in cases where there is a grave reason for separation with the bond of the Sacrament remaining. I don't know, and I'm not going to judge, whether or not the current laws in Malta are sufficient. I'm only speaking in general on the morality of divorce laws.
__________________
Ron Conte
Roman Catholic theologian
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 14th October 2010, 12:34 PM
Truthseeker Truthseeker is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 273
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Conte View Post
Your explanation is based on the circumstances, so you are judging divorce to be immoral based on the third font, not the second font (moral object). An act that is immoral because of circumstances is not, for that reason, intrinsically evil. The Church does not teach that divorce is intrinsically evil. The OT permitted divorce, and God would never permit what is intrinsically evil.

A Catholic in Malta may judge that the circumstances in his nation are such that civil divorce is not needed to address the situations where the Church permits civil divorce. And therefore, he may vote against divorce. Or he might judge that the present laws do not sufficiently provide for civil divorce in so far as the Church permits it, and he may vote for the law. So there is a judgment of the prudential order that is needed to decide about this particular law.

The Church permits civil divorce, not only in cases of annulments, but also in cases where there is a grave reason for separation with the bond of the Sacrament remaining. I don't know, and I'm not going to judge, whether or not the current laws in Malta are sufficient. I'm only speaking in general on the morality of divorce laws.

Thanks Ron. I understand better now. In my opinion, the present law in Malta, provides sufficiently for situations where the Church permits civil divorce. There is division of assets and custody of children. Only the process is too beraucratic and slow, which can increase pain needlesly. Before, separation is granted a specail lawyer is appointed to try to see if reconcilation is possible. I do not know how effective this is. In certain situations some couples have been reconciled, in others it just adds pain and waste of money.

For sure new laws are needed for children of separated couples who are cohabiting with other partners, who have children from these new relationships. This is perhaps the area where sepration of state and Church is needed. The government is working on this right now, but is maybe again too slow to legislate. It is not an easy topic to handle.

For sure the present system has to become more human and not be a money gaining process by those who can gain from these situations. Certainly, only people who have gone through this process, know the hassles involved and how inefficient the system is. It is easy to be an outside critic.
__________________
For this was I born, and for this came I into the world; that I should give testimony to the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice. (Jh:18:37)

Last edited by Truthseeker : 14th October 2010 at 12:45 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 14th January 2017, 12:42 PM
Truthseeker Truthseeker is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 273
Default Ruling by Maltese Bishops

Archbishop Charles J. Scicluna and Bishop Mario Grech have drawn up guidelines for priests, for the application of Chapter VIII of the Apostolic Exhortation of Pope Francis's 'Amoris Laetitia.' (Credit: thechurcinmalta.org.)

In guidelines for the application of Pope Francis's "Amoris Laetitia", the bishops of Malta say that divorced and civilly remarried Catholics who, with "an informed and enlightened conscience," believe they're at peace with God,"cannot be precluded from participating in the sacraments."

https://cruxnow.com/uncategorized/20...ive-communion/


I do not feel like commenting yet. I was wondering what Ron and others think of this.
__________________
For this was I born, and for this came I into the world; that I should give testimony to the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice. (Jh:18:37)
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.