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  #11  
Old 15th January 2017, 12:19 AM
St. Thomas More St. Thomas More is offline
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Default Malta

I think that his highlights the ambiguity about this issue in an otherwise good document - Amoris L.

Perhaps this will be an opportunity for this Pope, or a future one, to clarify the teaching on the indissolubility of marriage, as Cardinal Burke and others have requested.
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  #12  
Old 15th January 2017, 01:42 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Originally Posted by Truthseeker View Post
Archbishop Charles J. Scicluna and Bishop Mario Grech have drawn up guidelines for priests, for the application of Chapter VIII of the Apostolic Exhortation of Pope Francis's 'Amoris Laetitia.' (Credit: thechurcinmalta.org.)

In guidelines for the application of Pope Francis's "Amoris Laetitia", the bishops of Malta say that divorced and civilly remarried Catholics who, with "an informed and enlightened conscience," believe they're at peace with God,"cannot be precluded from participating in the sacraments."

https://cruxnow.com/uncategorized/20...ive-communion/


I do not feel like commenting yet. I was wondering what Ron and others think of this.

The minimum for reception of Communion is to be a baptized Christian who is in the state of grace. Strictly speaking, unless the Church establishes rules otherwise, an objective mortal sin that is not also an actual mortal sin does not prevent reception of Communion (internal forum), unless some other rule or judgment of the Church intervenes (like an interdict or excommunication).

I don't think it is a good idea to allow so many Catholics worldwide to receive Communion, when they have not been to Confession in years and are committing various objective mortal sins. But the Pope holds the keys. He can loosen the rules, if he wishes.

Eschatological point of view: Pope Francis establishes loose rules for Communion, resulting in a conservative schism. The next conservative Pope then establishes strict rules, resulting in a liberal (and more extensive schism).

If the divorced and remarried cannot receive communion, then neither can Catholics who use contraception, who support same-sex marriage, who support legalized abortion, who commit any of the grave sexual sins, or any grave sin. This dispute is not going to remain confined to divorce and remarriage. It will necessarily expand to exclude from Communion anyone who sins gravely and does not repent and confess.
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  #13  
Old 20th January 2017, 09:39 AM
St. Thomas More St. Thomas More is offline
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Default Communion for Remarried

Ron,

According to Catholic doctrine, are there any circumstances, objectively speaking, where a divorced/remarried person/couple (without an annulment) can receive Communion, other than if they are living as brother and sister?

Is the purpose of the internal forum to determine which of the above categories the person falls into, and to inform their conscience, so that they understand the indissolubility of marriage, and how it applies to the couple's specific situation - i.e. living as brother/sister, or having relations?

Thanks in advance. And a belated Happy New Year to everyone.
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  #14  
Old 20th January 2017, 01:13 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Originally Posted by St. Thomas More View Post
Ron,

According to Catholic doctrine, are there any circumstances, objectively speaking, where a divorced/remarried person/couple (without an annulment) can receive Communion, other than if they are living as brother and sister?

Is the purpose of the internal forum to determine which of the above categories the person falls into, and to inform their conscience, so that they understand the indissolubility of marriage, and how it applies to the couple's specific situation - i.e. living as brother/sister, or having relations?

Thanks in advance. And a belated Happy New Year to everyone.

The role of conscience is to seek, find, and apply objective moral truths to each person's life. But for the fallen sinner, this process often fails. So we must always distinguish between objective mortal sin and actual mortal sin.

There are many possible "divorced and remarried" situations. The commonly discussed situation, in regard to AL, is:
* one or both of the parties to the second union were married before
* the first marriage was the valid Sacrament
* the first spouse is still alive
* there are no grounds for annulment
* the couple are having sexual relations

Other situations exist. But given the above situation, according to the teaching of Jesus in the Gospels, the sexual relations of the second union is adultery.

[Luke] {16:18} Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery. And whoever marries her who has been divorced by her husband commits adultery.

If anyone says that the relations of the second union is not the objective sin of adultery, that would be heresy. But no one seems to be saying that, certainly not the Pope.

Who may receive Communion, under the bare minimum requirements as per doctrine? My understanding is that the person must be baptized and in the state of grace. But since we can't know for certain if we are in the state of grace (except by divine revelation), the communicant must not be aware of unrepentant actual mortal sin.

The Church has the authority to reduce the requirements to the bare minimum, or to add further requirements for reception of Communion. This principle is established by the rules for validity of any Sacrament: there are minimum requirements that the Church cannot change, and then there are additional requirements, added by the Church, which She can change or dispense.

Given the divorced and remarried situation detailed above, a baptized person must not be conscious of unrepented actual mortal sin to receive Communion. This could occur if the person repents, resolves to avoid the grave sin of adultery, and confesses before communion. It could also occur if the person mistakenly thinks that their sexual acts are not a grave sin, so that their objective mortal sins are not also actual mortal sins.

I don't agree with the Maltese discipline, nor even with the discipline proposed by the holy Pontiff. But the Pope holds the keys, and he can reduce the requirements to the bare minimum, if he wishes.

The Council of Trent permitted priests guilty of actual mortal sin to make an act of perfect contrition, and then say Mass and receive Communion, without confessing first. But the act of perfect contrition must include the resolve to confess at one's next opportunity.

Canon law permits the same to lay persons, for a grave reason, perfect contrition, reception of Communion, confession later.

The bottom line is that the Pope and the Bishops can permit reception of Communion under the bare minimum requirements if they wish.

I would opine that any Bishop in charge of a diocese or Bishops conference has the authority to increase the requirements for Communion in their diocese. AL does not impose one discipline for Communion on all diocese.

I prefer a stricter discipline where Confession is mandatory at least once every three or four months, and where any objective grave sin must be confessed before communion (with exceptions for a grave reason).

The problem with my proposal is that the vast majority of Catholics who receive Communion are guilty of objective mortal sin: contraception, sexual sins (porn, masturbation, sex outside of marriage, unnatural sexual acts in marriage), and heresy are most common.

The common heresies: refusal to believe that the Bible is inerrant, refusal to accept the authority of the Magisterium, rejection of transubstantiation and the real presence, belief that gay marriage is a true type of marriage, rejection of Church teaching on contraception, abortion, and sexual sins, rejection of Church teaching on intrinsic evil, rejection of Adam and Eve as two real historical persons who fell from grace, rejection of original sin, rejection of the teaching of the First Vatican Council that the Pope has the gift of a never-failing faith, and the claim that only baptized Christians are children of God by spiritual adoption.
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  #15  
Old 20th January 2017, 09:14 PM
Hands of Truth Hands of Truth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keva View Post
.

Message number 2950. - "An order will be given by an order..."

Message number 2952. - "An order will come from Malta that will shake the church and make the faithful suffer..."

https://www.google.hr/url?sa=t&rct=j...iBrwfkT_Mjioeg


I know i have read other similar messages on some different sites, but i cant find them now from this bunch of messages...


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