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  #1  
Old 19th September 2011, 02:49 PM
Jeanne D'Arc
 
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Default visionary on approval

Here is a link to a news item from Medjugorie.

http://www.medjugorjetoday.tv/1644/s...e-recognition/
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  #2  
Old 19th September 2011, 03:18 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Marija said: "I am convinced that the Vatican recognizes the authenticity of the apparitions, but only when they stop and when we visionaries have died”. But this is her personal opinion, not something that the Virgin Mary asserted to her in private revelation.

The basis for her opinion is perhaps the fact that past true apparitions have not been approved, until the apparitions and messages were completed. Since all the visionaries will have at least one message per year until their deaths, and one visionary will continue to have messages throughout the time of the secrets, Marija concludes that all the visionaries will be dead before approval is given.

However, my opinion is that the Church will approve of Medjugorje before the apparitions and messages end. This approval would be extraordinary, since the messages will still be on-going. However, the miraculous Permanent Sign will be an undeniable witness in favor of authenticity. Even the Bishop of Mostar, who is very strongly against approval, has said he will approve and believe in these apparitions if the Permanent Sign occurs:

"I have already declared earlier and now repeat the same declaration that if Our Lady leaves the sign which the 'seers' are speaking of, I'll make a pilgrimage from Mostar to Medjugorje (30 km) on my knees and beg the Franciscans and the 'seers' for forgiveness." (February 1990 statement of Bp. Zanic, printed in Fidelity magazine, May 1990)
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  #3  
Old 19th September 2011, 06:14 PM
VKallin VKallin is offline
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Default The current Bishop of Mostar

I believe that the current Bishop of Mostar is Bishop Ratco Peric. He is also non-supportive of the apparitions. But he also does not support the apparitions at Lourdes or Fatima. He has also stated publicly that he has never met or interviewed any of the Medjugorje visionaires.

A recent article on the progress of the Vatican's comission hinted that the comission had considered the possibility of removing Medjugorje from the diocese of Mostar and establishing a new diocese for Medjugorje. All of this is still speculation, however, as the comission has made no decisions public.
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Old 19th September 2011, 08:05 PM
Jeanne D'Arc
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Conte View Post
Marija said: "I am convinced that the Vatican recognizes the authenticity of the apparitions, but only when they stop and when we visionaries have died”. But this is her personal opinion, not something that the Virgin Mary asserted to her in private revelation.

The basis for her opinion is perhaps the fact that past true apparitions have not been approved, until the apparitions and messages were completed. Since all the visionaries will have at least one message per year until their deaths, and one visionary will continue to have messages throughout the time of the secrets, Marija concludes that all the visionaries will be dead before approval is given.

However, my opinion is that the Church will approve of Medjugorje before the apparitions and messages end. This approval would be extraordinary, since the messages will still be on-going. However, the miraculous Permanent Sign will be an undeniable witness in favor of authenticity. Even the Bishop of Mostar, who is very strongly against approval, has said he will approve and believe in these apparitions if the Permanent Sign occurs:

"I have already declared earlier and now repeat the same declaration that if Our Lady leaves the sign which the 'seers' are speaking of, I'll make a pilgrimage from Mostar to Medjugorje (30 km) on my knees and beg the Franciscans and the 'seers' for forgiveness." (February 1990 statement of Bp. Zanic, printed in Fidelity magazine, May 1990)

Now, all that being said, I am going to go with what the visionaries are saying. Yes, they could be wrong about it, but since they are the ones who know the secrets and some of the dates, etc., I think I have to vote for them on this one. Also, even if the Permanent Sign makes the old Bishop change his heart, it may take the Vatican awhile to investigate. When things start hitting the fan, it is possible that all or most of the visionaries may , in fact, die at the same time since most can be in Medjugorie at any given time. God has a way of making His plans work!! IMHO.
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  #5  
Old 20th September 2011, 12:14 AM
TheGiftOfLife
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeanne D'Arc View Post
Now, all that being said, I am going to go with what the visionaries are saying. Yes, they could be wrong about it, but since they are the ones who know the secrets and some of the dates, etc., I think I have to vote for them on this one. Also, even if the Permanent Sign makes the old Bishop change his heart, it may take the Vatican awhile to investigate. When things start hitting the fan, it is possible that all or most of the visionaries may , in fact, die at the same time since most can be in Medjugorie at any given time. God has a way of making His plans work!! IMHO.

This is the first I am hearing about the "approval after death" comment.

#1 I dont know what the rush is on the Vatican to approve an apparition before the messages predicted, miracles come to pass as those of Fatima and Lourdes. BTW Fatima was approved with Sr. Lucia alive.
It seems to me, a bit arrogant for the Vatican to approve without the past criteria being applied here as well.
#2 I cant understand why the visionaries would say "after death" knowing that the warning and permanant sign MUST take place when at least 1 of them must be alive to still receive messages when the secrets unfold.

Then again, the Vatican might approve and then disapprove causing the loss of faith that was predicted.

In any case, I think its all entertaining to hear all of this, but I think the best thing to do is just take each day and wait and see. Im sure the Pope knows what he is doing and is forcing this approval for a reason. very interesting
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  #6  
Old 20th September 2011, 12:17 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Notice that the 'approval only after death' idea implies that the Medjugorje commission will either not issue a ruling, or -- what is much more probable -- will issue a negative ruling.
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  #7  
Old 20th September 2011, 05:30 PM
garabandalg garabandalg is offline
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Default Only stamp of approval that counts is God's

History shows that what commissions and officials think about apparitions should be taken with a grain of salt. Fatima and Lourdes were both the subject of much dispute and debate by groups composed of people who will enjoy oblivion for the rest of time while these sites continue to nourish and inspire the faithful. I expect Garabandal and Med. to be the same.
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  #8  
Old 22nd September 2011, 03:40 AM
garabandalg garabandalg is offline
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Default A broken record when it comes to human reaction to the supernatural....

A lot of this is a question of people's ability to admit that they are wrong versus their inability to admit this lest being wrong once in a while should be taken as a sign of weakness or somehow lessen their role in society. Many people who felt that others regarded them as spiritual experts did not want to ever admit that they might be wrong on these apparitions or related issues. God is never wrong; the rest of us are left to admit our stumbles, learn from them, and move closer to God from the process. This has happened and will continue to happen at Garabandal as well.

Christ would ask us who we think we are to be so sensitive to admitting error when we have been wrong in the past. Such pride is always an obstacle to holiness, sanctity, and ultimately, salvation.
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  #9  
Old 22nd September 2011, 12:28 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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The approval after death comment implies that this visionary does not believe that the world will end after the ten secrets, after that series of terrible events -- which must be part of the tribulation. So this supports the idea that the tribulation is divided into two parts, with a respite (a brief time of peace) after the first part. If the end were to occur after the tenth secret, then there would be no reason for this visionary to expect approval from the Church for the apparitions.
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