CatholicPlanet.Net discussion group  

Go Back   CatholicPlanet.Net discussion group > Eschatology and Private Revelation > Medjugorje and Garabandal
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 6th November 2013, 06:39 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,568
Default CDF on Medjugorje

The Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith has directed that bishops be advised that “clerics and the faithful are not permitted to participate in meetings, conferences or public celebrations during which the credibility of such ‘apparitions’ would be taken for granted.”

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2013/11/cdf-d...to-medjugorje/

In my opinion, the Holy See is moving toward issuing a disapproval of Medjugorje. Pope Francis is concerned that some private revelations draw the faithful away from public revelation (Tradition and Scripture). And he tends to seek and accept the advice and judgment of his fellow Bishops. So it looks like the Church will formally disapprove of Medjugorje.

This type of prudential judgment by the Church is of discipline, not doctrine. So a Catholic can faithfully disagree, without sin or penalty.
__________________
Ron Conte
Roman Catholic theologian
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 6th November 2013, 09:54 PM
Brother Brother is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,759
Default

To me, Medjurgorge is true, and the Church some day will declare it as so.

Regarding this particular ruling, I disagree, but I'll obey.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 6th November 2013, 11:49 PM
jbbt9 jbbt9 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 560
Default Trigger for apostasy and schism

A formal ruling against Medjugorje would be a major trigger for accelerating the apostasy and schism. Couple that with a possible woman cardinal and you begin to see the potential for division and revolt.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 7th November 2013, 02:33 PM
Brother Brother is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,759
Default Stick with the Church

Remember, no matter what happens, stick with the Church.

Hard tests and bumpy ride ahead.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 7th November 2013, 03:28 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,568
Default

I think the Holy See under Pope Francis will ban very many claimed private revelations. This will cause many of their adherents to leave the Church.

Then if Pope Francis approves of the ordination of women deacons, or women Cardinals, many conservatives will depart.

The other controversial issue, likely to arise, is salvation for non-Christian believers and unbelievers. If the Pope teaches that they can be saved without converting, it will be a further impetus for conservatives to leave the Church.
__________________
Ron Conte
Roman Catholic theologian
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 7th November 2013, 03:40 PM
MadHatter37 MadHatter37 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 19
Default Are we being truly good Catholics?

Hi All,

Peace and blessings to all of you. I wanted to comment because I wanted to ensure that we are all staying on the straight path and not veering off of any deep ends, into our own conceptions of what is right and wrong, and perhaps even away from the Church. Some of the things that I am about to say will be centered around the "spirit" or essence of things.

The article mentioned above has the spirit of disapproval from the Vatican. Is there anything explicit to that effect? It does not seem so, but why, then, would it be explicitly stated that American clerics are disallowed from (and I'm paraphrasing here) virtually anything to do with participating in events and situations that signal an approval of the Medjugorje apparitions?

Why would any parent tell his or her child to steer clear of something?

Now that Holy Mother Church is telling us the same, would we not be wise to follow Her instruction, which is made out of love?

There has been much talk of the Medjugorje apparitions on this website. I have my own opinion of whether these apparitions are authentic or not, but this does not matter, because, frankly, I am a simple man who knows that his opinion means nothing. There are a few individuals who support the authenticity of these apparitions and there are a few opposed to the same, and with each opinion is a very personalized set of reasons to substantiate it (i.e. "I've been there before, so I know it to be true," "I have been to over 700 websites, and 648 of them disapprove of the apparitions," etc.).

While I know that each is entitled to his or her own opinion on the apparitions (to a point), the spirit I gather from these general discussions is an adherence to one's own belief(s)/opinion(s). I cannot quite pinpoint what the exact issue I have is, but do you ever get the feeling that you know something is not right but you can't explain why? I can't fully explain why, but all this discussion that amounts to disagreement with the Church makes me quite uncomfortable.

Is it really important that we have such opinions? Should we not, like good children, cling to our Holy Mother and pray that She will always guide us toward Him Who is Truth itself?

Perhaps this is just my nature, and it always has been this way, but I feel like a little toddler waddling along through life with the Church as my Mother. I will always come to Her aid and defense because She has helped form me into the man I am today. I love Her, and I treasure Her, for She belongs to my Lord.

I hope that what I have said has struck a chord with you. Thank you for this wonderful opportunity to share our faith with one another, Ron. This website has truly been a blessing to me.

Regards,
Joe
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 7th November 2013, 04:40 PM
jeromeindesert jeromeindesert is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 147
Red face reply

Joe: it is not Just American clerics banned from participating in Medjugorje "apparitions"/related matters. A copy of the letter sent to all bishops worldwide is on a link on spiritddaily.com.

Second: The seers themselves have said that the Vatican will not approve the Medj CPR until after they are all deceased. So we're talking many, many years.

Third: The wise Pope Francis knows that allowing seers to use church property and having clerics in attendance gives credence to those hundreds (maybe millions) of persons (many on the internet) who claim that Medjugorje is just a bunch of baloney cooked up by the Roman Catholic Church.

The church distancing itself from these apparitions is actually a good thing for the apparitions. It will ultimately result in many (anti-Marian) catholics & non catholics seeing the truth of the apparitions.

Last edited by jeromeindesert : 7th November 2013 at 04:43 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 7th November 2013, 05:35 PM
Pontifex Pontifex is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 588
Default

Ron,

What will this Commission really do at the end of the day ? Examine if there are any formal heresies in the messages. Since there seem to be none, then I think the Church will neither approve or disapprove.
__________________
While awaiting these things, be diligent, so that you may be found to be immaculate and unassailable before him, in peace. 2 Peter 3:14
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 7th November 2013, 05:40 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,568
Default

Joe,

You ask if we would be wise to follow the instructions of the Church. To do so, we must be well-informed as to Church teaching. The Church in fact teaches that there are infallible teachings, which require the full assent of faith, but then there are non-infallible teachings, which generally require religious submission of will and intellect -- a lesser degree and different type of assent. The Church asks us to distinguish between infallible and non-infallible teachings by teaching us of these two different types of assent. We are not to treat infallible teachings as if they were non-infallible, nor vice versa.

The Magisterium teaches that some limited dissent from non-infallible teachings is licit.

Then there are the prudential judgments of the Church, which are generally fallible. The faithful are free to disagree with prudential judgments of the Church, such as a decision on the form of the Mass, or a judgment about a claimed private revelation (unless the cpr teaches heresy).

Cardinal Ratzinger on this topic: “Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia. For example, if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage war, he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion. While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment. There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia.”

Catholics can even disagree with the Pope in a matter of life and death, such as capital punishment or a particular war. So we can certainly disagree on whether a CPR is true or false.

So, Joe, we would not be more faithful if we ignore all that the Church teaches on this subject, and treat every teaching and judgment as if it were dogma. But the faithful are poorly catechized, and so they tend to over-simplify whenever there is a controversy.
__________________
Ron Conte
Roman Catholic theologian
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 7th November 2013, 05:41 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,568
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pontifex View Post
Ron,

What will this Commission really do at the end of the day ? Examine if there are any formal heresies in the messages. Since there seem to be none, then I think the Church will neither approve or disapprove.

The evaluation of a cpr is not based solely on the presence or absence of heresy. They can disapprove of a cpr based merely on prudence, for no private revelation is essential to the path of salvation.
__________________
Ron Conte
Roman Catholic theologian
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.